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U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#261

Post by rayiner »

mikeash wrote: post #253
vonseel wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Reuters is generally a reliable source, but I agree with your double standard points. This was a horrible accident, but you have to realize there are probably some very bad people they intended to target and the US doesn't blow up random Afghan farmers for fun and games. HN is quite the liberal community so I'm not surprised if some of the posters here think the Trump administration is more evil than the peop…

I like to imagine the reaction if it happened here. Imagine that, say, China blew up 30 Americans in the US with a missile. And their reaction was, “sorry, my bad, I thought they were terrorists.” Can you imagine the response? I think we’d have a nuclear war before the end of the day.

Of course. And? The implications of that hypothetical are surprising only to a very few with out of mainstream belief systems. Of course it’s worse when it happens to us than when it happens to someone else. The point hardly bears mentioning.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#262

Post by justin66 »

whiddershins wrote: post #215

I wonder why, even though we generally try to be skeptical of the news, I’m not seeing many comments here that question whether what this article is saying is even accurate. How exactly does the reporter know which people are IS fighters? Is there some notion that militants don’t ever also farm? Also in these comments there seems to be a huge double standard. The idea the United States might accidentally kill some ci…

Wow, whiddershins, those are some baseless comments.

> How exactly does the reporter know which people are IS fighters?

You aren't reading carefully at all. The reporters are quoting Afghan officials. The reporters are quoting American officials. Afghan officials have indicated at least 30 civilians were killed and 40 were injured in an attack that accidentally targeted farmers and laborers. American officials "are working with local officials to determine the facts."

The reporters have not made the claim you are attributing to them.

> The idea the United States might accidentally kill some civilians is somehow morally outrageous, but the regular and deliberate targeting of civilians by the Taliban and the IS as they attempt to completely destabilize the Afghan government is taken as somehow normal?

That's a strawman, and you ought to avoid that sort of thing. (edit: although you've suckered some people into arguing about it. kudos!)

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#263

Post by mikeash »

rayiner wrote: post #261
mikeash wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to imagine the reaction if it happened here. Imagine that, say, China blew up 30 Americans in the US with a missile. And their reaction was, “sorry, my bad, I thought they were terrorists.” Can you imagine the response? I think we’d have a nuclear war before the end of the day.

Of course. And? The implications of that hypothetical are surprising only to a very few with out of mainstream belief systems. Of course it’s worse when it happens to us than when it happens to someone else. The point hardly bears mentioning.

“This was a horrible accident, but you have to realize there are probably some very bad people they intended to target and the US doesn't blow up random Afghan farmers for fun and games.”

We wouldn’t accept this excuse in my hypothetical, so we shouldn’t accept this excuse when we’re the ones murdering dozens of innocents.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#264

Post by mikejb »

mikeash wrote: post #253
vonseel wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Reuters is generally a reliable source, but I agree with your double standard points. This was a horrible accident, but you have to realize there are probably some very bad people they intended to target and the US doesn't blow up random Afghan farmers for fun and games. HN is quite the liberal community so I'm not surprised if some of the posters here think the Trump administration is more evil than the peop…

I like to imagine the reaction if it happened here. Imagine that, say, China blew up 30 Americans in the US with a missile. And their reaction was, “sorry, my bad, I thought they were terrorists.” Can you imagine the response? I think we’d have a nuclear war before the end of the day.

You don't even have to go that far - imagine China flying combat drones over US territory.

The US is a military power house, and they use and abuse this power to maintain their ways of life, no matter the costs to others.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#265

Post by pnako »

whiddershins wrote: post #248
mad_tortoise wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man stop drinking the kool-aid. You're lapping up your countries propoganda left, right and center. Apparently according to you, art, science and the humanities wouldn't exist if not for the USA? Get out of here, this is hackernews not 4chan.

It’s hard to make art when your country is being torn to shreds by war. How much art was coming out of East Germany under the Soviet Union? What other nation is deterring constant military expansion of China and Russia? How many nations are confronting IS? You are either naive or destructive.

IS was created after the US destroyed Iraq, based on false evidence (just like America invaded Afghanistan based on false reasons). The damage is done, but why persist? What do you expect to happen exactly?

In fact Russia consolidated its influence and alliances in the middle east just by exploiting American mistakes there.

Just leave. It would be a hugely popular move everywhere: among the left, the right, veterans, other countries, etc. So why not do it?

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#266

Post by [deleted] »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #231
whiddershins wrote: post #215

I wonder why, even though we generally try to be skeptical of the news, I’m not seeing many comments here that question whether what this article is saying is even accurate. How exactly does the reporter know which people are IS fighters? Is there some notion that militants don’t ever also farm? Also in these comments there seems to be a huge double standard. The idea the United States might accidentally kill some ci…

> How exactly does the reporter know which people are IS fighters? Is there some notion that militants don’t ever also farm? The article says it explicitly: the information is sourced from Afghan officials. You could say that this may not be the most trustworthy source in this case, and I'd agree, but on the other hand, the problem of mounting civilian casualties of US drone strikes is already a decade if not more ol…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#267

Post by rayiner »

mikeash wrote: post #263
rayiner wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. And? The implications of that hypothetical are surprising only to a very few with out of mainstream belief systems. Of course it’s worse when it happens to us than when it happens to someone else. The point hardly bears mentioning.

“This was a horrible accident, but you have to realize there are probably some very bad people they intended to target and the US doesn't blow up random Afghan farmers for fun and games.” We wouldn’t accept this excuse in my hypothetical, so we shouldn’t accept this excuse when we’re the ones murdering dozens of innocents.

We wouldn’t accept the excuse because what China would be fighting for in your hypothetical would be bad, while what we’re fighting for is good. You can’t just transpose the hypothetical to suggest hypocrisy because there is none.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#268

Post by saiya-jin »

golergka wrote: post #49
mad_tortoise wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many "error's" does the US make? Far too many for them to be called "error's" anymore. How many kids were radicalised by the US going into Iraq and killing millions of their people? Tens of thousands of orphans, with an evil imperial army coming into their home, bombing their farms, raiding their homes, murdering civilians. Enough to create ISIS and radicalise thousands upon thousands more. How many families were…

> How many "error's" does the US make? Usually it's measured in the ratio of civilian casualties to combatants, and as far as I remember, US is keeping this ratio exceptionally low in comparison to other conflicts. That's the key point here: your criticism applies to any war at all. War is hell, everybody knows that. To be objective in your judgement about US though, you have to quantatively compare different conflic…

Maybe US just finally met nation/group of individuals pissed off enough to care and go and deliver revenge the deem adequate. I mean, expecting that some random casualties ratio being upheld means all is a-OK is a bit ridiculous, don't you think?

After all the hell and atrocities done by US in Vietnam, I absolutely do not understand how there was no strong resent towards US anymore after the war to the point of actively seeking and eliminating US targets like terrorist/spies do.

It was a humbling realization for me, and I have great respect for Vietnamese people not only for this.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#269

Post by kmjg88nvf8 »

tempodox wrote: post #213
kmjg88nvf8 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how did war in Afghanistan start? Taliban apparently came to power via war a couple of years before US engagement. Suppose that was a crime. Who punishes the criminals? Maybe that is exactly what the US sees itself doing? Unfortunately to punish war criminals, usually you have to win against them in a war.

The Taliban were a tiny splinter group before the US financed and trained them. They have always been fanatics. Funny how they were not called terrorists while the US thought they could use them for their own ends.

Why did the US fiance and train them? So it seems there was another war going on? Who started that war, and why?

Also I think they changed their allegiances, so they became terrorist towards US people?

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#270

Post by istjohn »

whiddershins wrote: post #218
Roboprog wrote: post #5

Why are we there? What’s the threat, again? I forgot.

The anniversary of 9/11 is a week ago and you forget?

Will that line suffice in 100 years? In my opinion, that justification's sell-by date was a decade ago.
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