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The Cult of Kubernetes

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Re: The Cult of Kubernetes

#261

Post by meowface »

wayoutthere wrote: post #225
meowface wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The wrapper can still be something self-hosted. There will always be SaaS/PaaS/IaaS abstractions out there for just about everything; even MySQL. The idea would be for someone to be able to very easily self-host something that's as simple to use and configure and interface with as AWS EKS or Google GKE. I have no idea what business case there'd be to open source it. Maybe some open source devs with former experience…

Would you do your day job “just for fun” after you just quit? The reality is that most of this technology — especially around infrastructure — has become so complex at scale that the tech strategy and the business strategy are the same thing. So infrastructure software has to match your business architecture which is largely dictated to a technology org. Which is why “tech ops” these days is largely just “ops” — the…

Me? No. But some people seem to like to do that. And some people do seem to be genuinely very passionate about infrastructure and such. Kubernetes can be applied to a lot of different business and technological architectures, I think, and a simpler alternative could be similarly general.

Re: The Cult of Kubernetes

#262

Post by reilly3000 »

meowface wrote: post #191
dkhenry wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kubernetes is the new Java Application Server for people who didn't realize that Java Applicaiton Servers were a terrible idea. Despite a long track record of failure individuals are trying to introduce the complexity of J2EE onto kubernetes. It doesn't need to be that way. Kubernetes can be very simple and it has been up until recently. Once the Enterprise Architects got their hands on it and decided everything need…

Odds are someone / some people will create some kind of simpler solution with an easy default setup within the next ~5 years. Maybe as a wrapper over Kubernetes, or maybe as something new and interoperable with it. Maybe it'll involve a bunch of "serverless" buzzwords or some newly invented buzzwords. That's how things usually go historically. A lot of value can still be extracted if you're careful to ignore the cult…

That would be knative.

Re: The Cult of Kubernetes

#263

Post by KorematsuFred »

root_axis wrote: post #244

This is another case of "I have never encountered and don't deeply understand the problems this tool was built to solve, thus the tool is totally unnecessary and the people who use it are part of a cult". This is the same kind of flawed reasoning you see in the front-end world where a bunch of people complain that they do all their work in jQuery so React must be a cult. Pasting what I wrote in another comment: The g…

To be fair to the author a lot of folks I know are jumping on K8s and their use case mostly looks like that of the blog author. In those specific case you indeed are joining a cult.

K8s is meant to reduce devops work and complexity. Most businesses do not reach that level of complexity and will never need K8s.

Re: The Cult of Kubernetes

#264

Post by bechampion »

Remember when Linux was hard to install and run as desktop ( multiple screens , acpi , sound , winmodems ) ?? We all have had this colleague that gets frustrated and installs windows after 10 minutes , And spends the rest of his life saying that Linux is of fanatics , geeks etc . Well this post it's literally the same .

Re: The Cult of Kubernetes

#265

Post by samatman »

root_axis wrote: post #244

This is another case of "I have never encountered and don't deeply understand the problems this tool was built to solve, thus the tool is totally unnecessary and the people who use it are part of a cult". This is the same kind of flawed reasoning you see in the front-end world where a bunch of people complain that they do all their work in jQuery so React must be a cult. Pasting what I wrote in another comment: The g…

"infrastructure as code" can be, and has been, solved with a combination of .git and bash scripts.

Kubernetes solves problems some groups will run into with shell scripts[†]. But not the problem of using git or GitHub, which is nonexistent.

[†] let us take as given that these problems are numerous and painful!

Re: The Cult of Kubernetes

#266

Post by root_axis »

KorematsuFred wrote: post #263
root_axis wrote: post #244

This is another case of "I have never encountered and don't deeply understand the problems this tool was built to solve, thus the tool is totally unnecessary and the people who use it are part of a cult". This is the same kind of flawed reasoning you see in the front-end world where a bunch of people complain that they do all their work in jQuery so React must be a cult. Pasting what I wrote in another comment: The g…

To be fair to the author a lot of folks I know are jumping on K8s and their use case mostly looks like that of the blog author. In those specific case you indeed are joining a cult. K8s is meant to reduce devops work and complexity. Most businesses do not reach that level of complexity and will never need K8s.

If it's a cult, then it's the cult of developer fashion where participants complain about free tools they don't understand and don't have to use.

Re: The Cult of Kubernetes

#267

Post by hn23 »

dkhenry wrote: post #184
wayoutthere wrote: post #127

I mean, good on the author, but this isn’t what Kubernetes is really for. Kubernetes is basically a way to run a Java-like application server that can run things other than Java. If that sounds like an appealing prospect to you, the complexity of Kubernetes may be a good fit. Kubernetes is complex because sometimes you need to be able to do complex things. Sometimes you operate at a scale where spending 12 hours writ…

Kubernetes is the new Java Application Server for people who didn't realize that Java Applicaiton Servers were a terrible idea. Despite a long track record of failure individuals are trying to introduce the complexity of J2EE onto kubernetes. It doesn't need to be that way. Kubernetes can be very simple and it has been up until recently. Once the Enterprise Architects got their hands on it and decided everything need…

But then the question arises, why would I need kubernetes to run a small blog... why not just run the blog. I mean.

Re: The Cult of Kubernetes

#269

Post by choeger »

root_axis wrote: post #266
KorematsuFred wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to the author a lot of folks I know are jumping on K8s and their use case mostly looks like that of the blog author. In those specific case you indeed are joining a cult. K8s is meant to reduce devops work and complexity. Most businesses do not reach that level of complexity and will never need K8s.

If it's a cult, then it's the cult of developer fashion where participants complain about free tools they don't understand and don't have to use.

Tbf many developers have to use whatever someone up the chain considers fancy.

Re: The Cult of Kubernetes

#270

Post by AlphaSite »

wayoutthere wrote: post #148
zemo wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> complaining that running a blog on Kubernetes is too complex think you're really missing the point here. Why do you think this was included in the post? https://twitter.com/dexhorthy/status/856639005462417409

Oh I get the author’s point, but her use case was “basically a Heroku replacement for easy deployment”. It’s just the wrong use case for Kubernetes and it is well known that deploying to Kubernetes is a bit of a nightmare.

Isn’t the right answer there Knative or Cloud Foundry? (On top of k8s)
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