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Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

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Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#261

Post by FreeFull »

1338 wrote: post #168
contactlight11 wrote: post #154

How about this information from CT's DEEP which quotes the EPA for the majority of it's information? Compared to virgin materials, using recycled materials more efficient by: - 40% for paper - 60-74% for steel and tin cans - 33% for plastics - 30% for glass - 5% for aluminum cans These numbers appear to be referencing the generation of new products using recycled vs new materials, but do they fail to take in to accou…

Most of the statistics are worded differently from that source, but according to the EPA, the energy used to make products with recycled materials is: paper: 40% less steel and tin: 60%-74% less plastic: 33% less glass: 30% less aluminum: 95% less edit:formatting

Aluminium is the prime example of a material that's really worth recycling. Production of aluminium involves both high temperatures (950 to 980 degrees Celsius) and a rather large amount of electricity. Recycling just involves melting the aluminium down (The melting temperature is around 660 degrees Celsius).

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#262

Post by Firadeoclus »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #236
Firadeoclus wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you frame it? People saying this are frequently those who would also admit that they were wrong about the things they believed to bring them satisfaction and comfort. From their own experience they know that it did not mean a reduction in quality of life for them. That doesn't mean it works that way for everyone, but it's not dishonest.

Well, honestly... If you believe that the future of the world depends on reducing consumption, a presupposition which is not necessarily true, then you are asking people to reduce their quality of life. That’s not to say that people cannot be satisfied by a reduced quality of life, but asking people to sacrifice things that bring them comfort, convenience or satisfaction is by definition asking them to reduce their q…

I'm not referring to asking people to sacrifice something, but to question assumptions around consumption which supposedly brings comfort, convenience or satisfaction. That doesn't mean all those assumptions are wrong, but that it's likely some of them are.

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#263

Post by jrace »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #257
dwild wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My mother-in-law would run the cans and bottles through the dishwasher before putting them in the rcycle bin. That seems to be the issue, not the recycling program. > Just driving the truck around the neighborhood to pick up the bins is a cost in diesel, human resources (which translate to carbon at some level). The same truck would still drive arround though if you didn't have recycling program, it will just be a b…

How many folks are derailing recycling out of a misconception of the issues involved? Most I would guess. Not sure what black/green means. We have separate recycling pickup vehicles around here. They wouldn't run at all if there were no recycling.

But then your garbage truck (black) would have to pick up all the recycling that the green truck used to pick up. So unless your current black trucks are never full then you would either need more black trucks or they would need to make 2x the trips.

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#264

Post by daxfohl »

em-bee wrote: post #194
barry-cotter wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To outfit a wagon to go West with all the supplies necessary cost the inflation adjusted equivalent of about $100K. Wagons, livestock, supplies to live on while travelling and when homesteading before the first harvest came in were not cheap. That’s without considering the materiel you’d need to set up a farm when you got to your homestead. North America was labour scarce compared to Europe from 1492 on. There was al…

i mean live on their own land and have their own farm instead of being a laborer depending on a salary. and since it was expensive many put all they had into that and could not afford to waste any of it.

The book specifically said, to keep the country side clean. It was somewhere in book 5.

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#265

Post by [deleted] »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #257
dwild wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My mother-in-law would run the cans and bottles through the dishwasher before putting them in the rcycle bin. That seems to be the issue, not the recycling program. > Just driving the truck around the neighborhood to pick up the bins is a cost in diesel, human resources (which translate to carbon at some level). The same truck would still drive arround though if you didn't have recycling program, it will just be a b…

How many folks are derailing recycling out of a misconception of the issues involved? Most I would guess. Not sure what black/green means. We have separate recycling pickup vehicles around here. They wouldn't run at all if there were no recycling.

[deleted]

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#266

Post by pure-awesome »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #257
dwild wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My mother-in-law would run the cans and bottles through the dishwasher before putting them in the rcycle bin. That seems to be the issue, not the recycling program. > Just driving the truck around the neighborhood to pick up the bins is a cost in diesel, human resources (which translate to carbon at some level). The same truck would still drive arround though if you didn't have recycling program, it will just be a b…

How many folks are derailing recycling out of a misconception of the issues involved? Most I would guess. Not sure what black/green means. We have separate recycling pickup vehicles around here. They wouldn't run at all if there were no recycling.

Not the previous poster, but it seems "black" represents garbage truck whilst "green" represents recycling.

The argument they were making is if your garbage weren't going to a recycling plant, it would be going to a landfill. Either way, the same amount of waste has to be transported from your home, so the same number of trucks would still be driving around.

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#267

Post by navigatesol »

dwild wrote: post #254
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's the in-home cost. My mother-in-law would run the cans and bottles through the dishwasher before putting them in the rcycle bin. The energy, hot water, soap constituted a catastrophic reversal of any possible gain from the recycling. Just driving the truck around the neighborhood to pick up the bins is a cost in diesel, human resources (which translate to carbon at some level).

>My mother-in-law would run the cans and bottles through the dishwasher before putting them in the rcycle bin. That seems to be the issue, not the recycling program. > Just driving the truck around the neighborhood to pick up the bins is a cost in diesel, human resources (which translate to carbon at some level). The same truck would still drive arround though if you didn't have recycling program, it will just be a b…

>That seems to be the issue, not the recycling program.

The recycling program requires the cans be clean, so someone, somewhere is washing them.

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#268

Post by navigatesol »

nordsieck wrote: post #150
yongjik wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The convenience of throwing something away is a triumph of modern civilization ... I think you got it backwards. Throwing stuff away was the normal way of life before modern civilization arrived, just like defecating wherever you find convenient, hunting animals for dinner, or riding hoses on whatever side of road you like. The wonder of modern civilization gave us so much power to produce stuff that it's no longer…

> Throwing stuff away was the normal way of life before modern civilization arrived What? Absolutely not. Things were precious and labor was cheap back in the day. Anything that could be repaired was. Ever heard of "darning socks"? Yeah - no one would do that today, but it was common 100 years ago. > just like defecating wherever you find convenient Lol. People found out pretty quickly that you have to give a crap ab…

>People found out pretty quickly that you have to give a crap about where you give a crap or people get sick and die. This is 2000 BC social technology.

So it only took us, what, 1.5 million years?

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#269

Post by SlowRobotAhead »

FreeFull wrote: post #261
1338 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the statistics are worded differently from that source, but according to the EPA, the energy used to make products with recycled materials is: paper: 40% less steel and tin: 60%-74% less plastic: 33% less glass: 30% less aluminum: 95% less edit:formatting

Aluminium is the prime example of a material that's really worth recycling. Production of aluminium involves both high temperatures (950 to 980 degrees Celsius) and a rather large amount of electricity. Recycling just involves melting the aluminium down (The melting temperature is around 660 degrees Celsius).

>Production of aluminium involves both high temperatures (950 to 980 degrees Celsius) and a rather large amount of electricity.

It’s rare I see anyone have even the slightest bit of actual production knowledge in these climate-related topics, so I appreciate that.

You’re right about recycling aluminum. It’s also why a LOT of the new production work is done in Iceland with geothermal heat and nearly free electricity.

Unfortunately, it makes so much sense to produce aluminum in Iceland, that it’s shipped from China to Iceland and back again to do so... on crude tanker fuel at very low efficiency.

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#270

Post by JoeAltmaier »

navigatesol wrote: post #267
dwild wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My mother-in-law would run the cans and bottles through the dishwasher before putting them in the rcycle bin. That seems to be the issue, not the recycling program. > Just driving the truck around the neighborhood to pick up the bins is a cost in diesel, human resources (which translate to carbon at some level). The same truck would still drive arround though if you didn't have recycling program, it will just be a b…

> That seems to be the issue, not the recycling program. The recycling program requires the cans be clean, so someone, somewhere is washing them.

Efficiently, in huge washers. Not four or five bottles at a time in a consumer dishwasher.
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