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France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

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Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#261

Post by vorpalhex »

bmelton wrote: post #249
vorpalhex wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's short sighted to over tax your citizens from both sides?

To this extent, countries compete on taxation and value-add for services. Perhaps country A charges more in taxes, but offers more education to its people, and a more educated workforce to hire from, while country B offers fewer of those amenities in exchange for lower taxes. Inter-country competition helps to keep them honest, and corporations get to choose the luxury of where they operate from and do business out o…

That's a very thoughtful reply to my off the cuff response. Corporations and people do get to shop both taxes and benefits, but most individuals seem to treat them like a genetic condition.

There's value in competition, because it's about the closest we've been able to get to evolution. The issue comes about when competition is lopsided - I can understand the complaint here from the French, but I don't care at all for their solution.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#262

Post by hmartiniano »

charlesdm wrote: post #220
opportune wrote: post #195

Part of me originally wanted the US to retaliate since this theoretically threatens my paycheck, but a 3% tax on revenue generated within the country is pretty low and seems reasonable considering how ineffective taxing profits is due to loopholes. I really don't think it's sour grapes so much as trying to address the Irish/Luxembourgish tax schemes

Correct in theory. But have you looked at french tax policy? The issue with new taxes is that often it starts at 3%, then goes up gradually to 5, then to 7, and before you know it you have a 15% turnover tax. France is a lovely country, but one of the worst players when it comes to tax policy. The never ending appetite to increase the spending of the state does not stop...

Which is actually a good idea: increase tax on revenues for companies using tax-evasion schemes until it is no longuer profitable for them to continue doing so.

Also, consider the fact that tax evasion is a crime in most countries and that this is a very bland measure when compared to what these companies (and their executives) really reserve.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#263

Post by Vinnl »

csomar wrote: post #52

This is a stupid move. The tax is not payed by big tech giants. Not by both, either. It's complicated and depends on who needs whom the more. If there are no alternative to AWS, Google Adsense, or an American SaaS in France; the French people will be paying all of the tax. The big tech giants will just slap them with a 3% surcharge for being in France. This is different from US-China tariffs. If the US can source fro…

> If there are no alternative to AWS, Google Adsense, or an American SaaS in France; the French people will be paying all of the tax. The big tech giants will just slap them with a 3% surcharge for being in France.

Just like VAT is passed on to consumers? I don't think the goal is to make specific companies pay; rather, the goal is to have every type of economic activity to contribute a fair share to the society they benefit from. Digital activity currently contributes relatively little due to being more amenable to tax evasion schemes, so this tax mitigates that. How the exact amount is subsequently distributed among the parties in that activity is not that relevant.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#264

Post by eanzenberg »

opportune wrote: post #195

Part of me originally wanted the US to retaliate since this theoretically threatens my paycheck, but a 3% tax on revenue generated within the country is pretty low and seems reasonable considering how ineffective taxing profits is due to loopholes. I really don't think it's sour grapes so much as trying to address the Irish/Luxembourgish tax schemes

A tax on revenue is very different than a tax on profit.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#265

Post by tomc1985 »

sverige wrote: post #226
ineedasername wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>so any type of tax is justified? That's a straw man. You're leaping from "some type of tax is justified" which is quite a bit more reasonable than "any tax". And if you want to say it's a slippery slope or some such, well, ever single action if extrapolated to the extreme can be a viewed as such. If 3% is reasonable and then it's proposed to goes up and up, fight the increase, not the initial reasonable action. Of c…

All taxes are a slippery slope. Name one that has ever been repealed. Income tax in the U.S. started out as a modest 3% on only the highest incomes and look where that has ended up: full on wealth redistribution. We can argue whether that's a good thing or not, but not whether there's a slippery slope when it comes to implementing a new tax.

> All taxes are a slippery slope. Name one that has ever been repealed. Income tax in the U.S. started out as a modest 3% on only the highest incomes and look where that has ended up: full on wealth redistribution.

> We can argue whether that's a good thing or not, but not whether there's a slippery slope when it comes to implementing a new tax.

Dude what? Wealth redistribution? Lots of countries have much higher taxes that actually redistribute that wealth. Don't call our system socialist, it isn't. Have you ever lived in socialism (I have)? It isn't even here in California!

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#266

Post by rb808 »

bitwize wrote: post #200
bko wrote: post #15

I never understood the logic behind taxing large internet businesses. The idea behind taxes is that you use some public resource and you pay for that service. You own a home in a neighborhood, you pay property tax that funds the schools. You drive a car, you pay gasoline tax that funds the streets. You hire workers locally, you pay the tax to pay back all the contributions public institutions made to adding the skill…

The idea behind taxation is "the government needs money to function, and it alone has the authority to take it by force". Anything else is a post hoc justification.

Yeah I think Americans often look for economic incentives behind policy and think taxes are carefully chosen. Most Europeans know basically if there is money there it'll get taxed sooner or later.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#267

Post by corneliusphi1 »

sverige wrote: post #226
ineedasername wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>so any type of tax is justified? That's a straw man. You're leaping from "some type of tax is justified" which is quite a bit more reasonable than "any tax". And if you want to say it's a slippery slope or some such, well, ever single action if extrapolated to the extreme can be a viewed as such. If 3% is reasonable and then it's proposed to goes up and up, fight the increase, not the initial reasonable action. Of c…

All taxes are a slippery slope. Name one that has ever been repealed. Income tax in the U.S. started out as a modest 3% on only the highest incomes and look where that has ended up: full on wealth redistribution. We can argue whether that's a good thing or not, but not whether there's a slippery slope when it comes to implementing a new tax.

In 1944 the highest US tax bracket was 94%

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#268

Post by Bombthecat »

bko wrote: post #15

I never understood the logic behind taxing large internet businesses. The idea behind taxes is that you use some public resource and you pay for that service. You own a home in a neighborhood, you pay property tax that funds the schools. You drive a car, you pay gasoline tax that funds the streets. You hire workers locally, you pay the tax to pay back all the contributions public institutions made to adding the skill…

You don't like those taxes?

Go to China.

They steal your stuff without any chance of a legal battle?

Well... There is your reason for those taxes.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#269

Post by zmk_ »

CountSessine wrote: post #253
praptak wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So any taxation is justified? A corp will raise prices to whatever level the market will bear. Why shouldn't a society do the same with taxes?

A corp will raise prices to whatever level the market will bear. Why shouldn't a society do the same with taxes? A corp exists in a competitive market and can rarely raise prices to "whatever level the market will bear". If I don't like their prices, I use their competitor. What competitor does my mandatory government and it's confiscatory tax agency have? What alternative do I have but to hand over half my work to t…

What competitors will Amazon have in France if all the local competitors cannot escape paying local corporate taxes and Amazons of the word just throw a few millions at lawyers to shop around for the most convenient tax haven.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#270

Post by fiter »

simion314 wrote: post #172
fiter wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably the China tariffs are resulting in manufacturing being distributed to other countries. This could be considered a good side effect from a fault tolerance perspective.

Agree, also China,India and other countries will invest more into reducing their dependencies on US which is as you said good from a fault tolerance perspective

This trade war might help Chinese capital equipment manufacturers as they can sell to the new factories in other countries.
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