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Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

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Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#261

Post by peeters »

mrweasel wrote: post #55
sjwright wrote: post #22

That's good news—for the people who are buying laptops next year. Hopefully the return to scissor switches is combined with some improvements to the touch bar. My suggestion to Apple would be: put a small physical ESC key on the far left of the touch bar on 13 inch models, and include both physical F-keys AND a touch bar on the larger models. Bonus points: allow people to choose classic F-keys on the 13 inch models a…

I would love to see Apple make the touch bar an option. If Apple sold two identical MacBooks models, except for the touch bar, my guess would be that they would sell significantly more units without the touch bar. Is anyone seriously benefiting from the touch bar or even using it for anything other than as a gimmick?

I hate it, but I think there are definitely uses for the TouchBar. My main issue is the lack of indexing. You really can't use it without looking at your keyboard. I already dislike that the chiclet keyboards have no grouping of F-keys, unlike my standard layout keyboard that groups them into groups of four. But at least there I understand it's due to space constraints, and at least I still have some physical guide to the key I want.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#262

Post by labcomputer »

parasubvert wrote: post #235
lstamour wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB-C has lots of advantages, but it took 2-3 dark years before we started seeing commonly available peripherals that take advantage of the built-in protocols such as driver-less USB-C Ethernet adapters. I think USB-C on the iPad Pro and various phones has done more to turn USB-C into a viable standard than putting it on the laptops, since pros would obviously prefer existing and new Thunderbolt devices to USB-C devi…

I found the Magsafe adapter cords would fray, corrode, and blacken pretty easily, becoming a fire hazard. Every Macbook I owned, I would need at least one replacement over a 3 year period. The amount of time taken to re-plugin it in vs. times it saved my laptop from flying, really it was an overrated feature. USB-C comes out easily enough. Don't get me wrong, I liked Magsafe. But I don't understand the passion for it…

> I found the Magsafe adapter cords would fray, corrode, and blacken pretty easily, becoming a fire hazard.

Why do you attribute fraying and/or blackening of the cable to the connector at the end?

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#263

Post by iSnow »

mschuster91 wrote: post #136
thiht wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with usb c ?

Most stuff people use USB for still have the good old USB-A adapters: mice, keyboards, USB sticks/other drives, card readers, LTE dongles. The things that actually need the massive speed benefits from USB-C (10G network adapters and PCIe enclosures) can have USB-C, fine with me, but please don't force users to buy and especially lose adapters just to be able to use their existing stuff. And no need to make shit ever…

I have a hard time understanding people that just keep complaining about the new USB-C ports instead of just buying a handful of those (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CVX3516) and permanently attaching them to the mouse/keyboard cables.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#264

Post by skohan »

mrweasel wrote: post #55
sjwright wrote: post #22

That's good news—for the people who are buying laptops next year. Hopefully the return to scissor switches is combined with some improvements to the touch bar. My suggestion to Apple would be: put a small physical ESC key on the far left of the touch bar on 13 inch models, and include both physical F-keys AND a touch bar on the larger models. Bonus points: allow people to choose classic F-keys on the 13 inch models a…

I would love to see Apple make the touch bar an option. If Apple sold two identical MacBooks models, except for the touch bar, my guess would be that they would sell significantly more units without the touch bar. Is anyone seriously benefiting from the touch bar or even using it for anything other than as a gimmick?

IMO it's a liability and an unmitigated failure. It feels like a decision which came down from the board room, not from UX. Like: how can we make this product "pop" and at the same time make keyboard replacements produce more revenue?

The toudchbar is useless without developer adoption, and there will never be developer adoption if the only people using the feature are those who can spend a couple thousand dollars on a laptop. It seems to me the non-inclusion on the new Macbook Air was an admission of failure.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#265

Post by ubermonkey »

parasubvert wrote: post #206
aleem wrote: post #188

Apple has squandered a lot of its goodwill. It reminds me of my relationship with Microsoft products. As long as they were shipping, they were making money in the short term because people were coerced to buy in. For 5 damn years the Air didn't get a Retina display. Right now, I can't buy 2.8Ghz Macbook Pro unless I get the TouchBar. I can't buy an Air unless I settle for much lower specs. The dongles and USB-C are a…

See, I use a retina MBP touchbar and really don't agree. Apple has made some missteps but it's still the best pro laptop for my uses. Over two years with one replaced keyboard (because I spilled wine on it!) and no sticking keys. USB-C is awesome. I can reuse all my 3rd party and Apple adapters for my USB-C peripherals, including tablets and the Nintendo Switch. In retrospect, Magsafe wasn't that great (comes off too…

I mostly agree -- I finally ordered a new rMBP last week -- but the most damning loss on the new laptops is the SD slot. I'll miss that A LOT.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#266

Post by Zenst »

aleem wrote: post #188

Apple has squandered a lot of its goodwill. It reminds me of my relationship with Microsoft products. As long as they were shipping, they were making money in the short term because people were coerced to buy in. For 5 damn years the Air didn't get a Retina display. Right now, I can't buy 2.8Ghz Macbook Pro unless I get the TouchBar. I can't buy an Air unless I settle for much lower specs. The dongles and USB-C are a…

Yes, removing magsafe was regression. They could (or somebody could) do a magsafe adapter for them perhaps.

But this fetish to produce the smallest - we saw this before with mobile in the early day and that ended with what got affectionately known as the mars bar phone, then things got sane again.

But with laptops it is different - what we effectively have is - hey look at our new cool smaller and lighter laptop. Don't look at the now heavier, larger bag of adapter and accessories you now need to carry so you may use it as you intended.

Why their consumer base puts up with it makes no sense until you view the core of them as you view religion. Almost case for many that if Apple says jump, they jump. [EDIT ADD] This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEERq5tLiOY maybe sums it up :).

I like you comparision of Cook, maybe we will get a video of him one day doing a parody of Ballmer's infamous developers developers developers speech, with smaller smaller smaller. Maybe that has already happened - nobody would be supprised.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#267

Post by elsurudo »

LeonM wrote: post #249
aleem wrote: post #188

Apple has squandered a lot of its goodwill. It reminds me of my relationship with Microsoft products. As long as they were shipping, they were making money in the short term because people were coerced to buy in. For 5 damn years the Air didn't get a Retina display. Right now, I can't buy 2.8Ghz Macbook Pro unless I get the TouchBar. I can't buy an Air unless I settle for much lower specs. The dongles and USB-C are a…

People should really stop complaining about the dongle situation. Just about any portable device can be bought with USB-C or wireless. For fixed desk hardware (keyboard, mouse, monitor, ethernet) you should use a TB dock anyway. Yes, if you do presentations you probably need a dongle for the projector, but that has always been a mess anyway (VGA, HDMI, DP, DVI, it's never the same connection as your laptop). Yes, if…

> People should really stop complaining about the dongle situation.

You're not really refuting anything below, just essentially saying to people: you know, I know better than you, you don't really need these things (the same thing Apple is saying).

> Just about any portable device can be bought with USB-C or wireless. For fixed desk hardware (keyboard, mouse, monitor, ethernet) you should use a TB dock anyway.

Never had a need for a dock before...

> Yes, if you do presentations you probably need a dongle for the projector, but that has always been a mess anyway (VGA, HDMI, DP, DVI, it's never the same connection as your laptop).

I dunno, HDMI is pretty standard these days.

> Yes, if you use a camera you'll need an external SD card reader, but you'll need that for many other computers too.

No my current MBP, though, which is the point here.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#268

Post by mdemare »

pier25 wrote: post #244
parasubvert wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, I use a retina MBP touchbar and really don't agree. Apple has made some missteps but it's still the best pro laptop for my uses. Over two years with one replaced keyboard (because I spilled wine on it!) and no sticking keys. USB-C is awesome. I can reuse all my 3rd party and Apple adapters for my USB-C peripherals, including tablets and the Nintendo Switch. In retrospect, Magsafe wasn't that great (comes off too…

> They're obsolete. That is simply false. The biggest mice and keyboard manufacturers still ship with USB-A cables. Even Apple itself ships its mice and keyboards with USB-A cables.

Apple doesn’t sell any wired mice or keyboards AFAICT.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#269

Post by jdietrich »

parasubvert wrote: post #235
lstamour wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB-C has lots of advantages, but it took 2-3 dark years before we started seeing commonly available peripherals that take advantage of the built-in protocols such as driver-less USB-C Ethernet adapters. I think USB-C on the iPad Pro and various phones has done more to turn USB-C into a viable standard than putting it on the laptops, since pros would obviously prefer existing and new Thunderbolt devices to USB-C devi…

I found the Magsafe adapter cords would fray, corrode, and blacken pretty easily, becoming a fire hazard. Every Macbook I owned, I would need at least one replacement over a 3 year period. The amount of time taken to re-plugin it in vs. times it saved my laptop from flying, really it was an overrated feature. USB-C comes out easily enough. Don't get me wrong, I liked Magsafe. But I don't understand the passion for it…

>I found the Magsafe adapter cords would fray, corrode, and blacken pretty easily, becoming a fire hazard. Every Macbook I owned, I would need at least one replacement over a 3 year period.

That wasn't a fundamental problem with the MagSafe connector, but yet another symptom of Apple's detrimental obsession with aesthetics. The cable (like all Apple cables in recent years) had inadequate strain relief. Apple knew this, but decided that frayed and burned cables were preferable to an ugly strain relief boot. The problems with Apple cables are easily prevented with a few inches of electrical tape or a couple of pieces of heatshrink tubing to provide a satisfactory level of strain relief.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/07/why-a...

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201600

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#270

Post by parasubvert »

robertAngst wrote: post #78
dougmwne wrote: post #7

Thank goodness. MacBooks are the best laptops in many respects, but I had to cross them off the buy list due to the keyboard. I understand it's controversial, but for me I've spent plenty of time using the butterfly keyboard and it just doesn't feel comfortable to me. And I'm not some mechanical keyboard purist, actually my favorite keyboard of all time was the previous chicklet keyboard. A runner up for me is a trav…

> MacBooks are the best laptops in many respects I've never heard this before. I thought some people needed their proprietary software that could only be run on Apple products, and that is what forces someone to buy a Macbook. What are they best in class for? EDIT: Thank you for the serious responses

Near-instant sleep/wake, best trackpad, Exceptional battery life, good weight/thinness balance for the power, industry-leading I/O performance with their SSD (which were PCIe years before the mainstream), very fast external ports (USB-C now) which can drive RAID disk arrays, fast flash drives, even eGPUs.

After the hardware, the software: it's a GUI that just works with minimal fuss, supports most mainstream software, and also works with all the *nix stuff from Linux and BSD.

AND I can dual boot to Linux, Free/Open BSD, or Windows

AND I can run VMware or Parallels or the native Mac hypervisor (Docker)

I've seriously given consideration to the Surface Book Performance Base and the Dell XPS 15, but there are a lot of tradeoffs that keep me coming back to Apple's choices. The touchbar is not very useful to me but it's a minor thing. The keyboard I've been lucky (for 2 years).

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