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Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

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Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#261

Post by eitland »

googthrwy_ wrote: post #198
nsomaru wrote: post #174

I was the biggest Google fan ever. I recommended all their products to everyone I know. Gone are those days. I now trust Microsoft (heh! M!cr0$0ft, anyone?) more than Google which is strange given I grew up rebelling against MS’s technical desktop hegemony. I wonder when Google decided “doing evil” was okay. I wonder how the SWE’s and other senior people in this thread feel about working for a company that many now c…

I wonder how the SWE’s and other senior people in this thread feel about working for a company that many now consider scum. All their excuses and retorts can honestly take a hike: It is my honest opinion that if you still work for Google you’re selling us all out. Googler here, I understand why you may think Google is evil now and I'm not going to say they are a perfect company. But I think you should consider that i…

I feel quite a bit of the same as nsomaru; I've gone from being a naive Google fan to cautiously optimistic about Microsoft.

Unlike a bunch of others I never think I despised the majority of people working at neither Microsoft or Google.

But for the Chrome team; aren't they now actively undermining and weakening a major part of the Internet infrastructure by nerfing one of the most used clients to make sure it stops acting on behalf of its users?

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#262

Post by Fnoord »

bduerst wrote: post #234
panarky wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which raises deep suspicions about the political motivations of this "investigation". Anti-trust is about companies using their market power to exclude rivals, raise prices, and hurt consumers. It's not about consumers overwhelmingly choosing a product because they like it more. Can anyone really say that Google's practices are more anti-competitive than, say, the dominant players in broadband or health insurance or…

Google isn't, and the fact you're getting responses that are dodging your question just goes more to your point that this is most likely politically motivated.

The lack of competition on commercial infrastructure is a problem which occurs -AFAIK- worldwide. It occurs on wireless such as 4G, it occurs on DSL, and it occurs on cable. It is a real problem which indeed warrants a discussion, but not in a whataboutism-esque distraction. 2 wrongs don't make 1 right. It doesn't matter which one's are more anti-competitive. They both are (IMO); at the very least they're risky and therefore deserve careful analysis.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#263

Post by prepend »

googthrwy_ wrote: post #221
nsomaru wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I understand, the penalty for not paying taxes is incarceration or heavy fines. The penalty for not working for Google is effectively having to find work somewhere else. Not exactly oranges to oranges. I appreciate that you may be working on things that improve people’s lives. How is that work funded? What would happen to those projects when they are deemed not profitable enough or endanger the evil stuff?…

I agree its not a perfect analogy but you could argue that you can go live somewhere else too. And yes, a lot of the work is funded by the "evil stuff" but Google is trying to expand their enterprise offerings and their hardware business is growing as well. I expect those to be profitable one day if not already.

Moving countries is extremely difficult and sometimes impossible. The US is one of the easiest countries to immigrate to and we only have 14.4% of our population having changes countries (coming in at least) [0]. This LinkedIn article citing BLS stats says the average person will have 12-15 jobs in their lifetime [1].

So I don’t think it’s very comparable to say “you can just change countries.” The vast majority of people are stuck with their country, and the vast majority of people change jobs.

It must feel bad to work at Google. Making odd comparisons might be a symptom of explaining how positive things that are cool are still funded by ads that are at least annoying, but seem to be turning out to be anticompetitive and fraudulent even.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_Stat... [1] https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-many-jobs-average-person-...

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#264

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

studentrob wrote: post #193
HillaryBriss wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK. Maybe this is not totally relevant, and maybe it's not a valid counterpoint, but I find it interesting that the market capitalizations of AT&T, Comcast and Charter Communications combined are roughly $200 billion less than Alphabet alone.

You make a good point. Antitrust actions should be a function of both behavior and size. IMO, actions of ISPs have been more nefarious than FANG, https://www.freepress.net/our-response/expert-analysis/expla... https://potsandpansbyccg.com/2019/02/13/isps-are-violating-t...

Why not both? (Apart from politics, obvs.)

As an occasional content creator it's impossible not to be aware that the ISPs can limit access to the bandwidth I need, while any of the platforms I might use - PayPal, Ebay, Google/YouTube, Amazon, Apple, even Etsy - can kill an income stream at any time and keep all my earnings just because they want to, with no convincing good-faith resolution procedures and no (affordable) recourse.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#265

Post by inapis »

bduerst wrote: post #248
o10449366 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon does not collect more data than Google does, even by your own definition. In fact, Google uses Amazon to collect even more information than they do innately by mining Gmail for purchase receipts.

Amazon purchases your credit card purchase history from major CC providers, likely as part of reciprocity agreement. They know more about you thank you think. Source: I was retargeted on Amazon for an impulse buy of an obscure item from Macy's. My CC was the only way to join my data.

Google does that too. I don't think there's any company dealing with ads which doesn't do that kind of an agreement.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#266

Post by User23 »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #194
mjevans wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're jumping to a conclusion with that phrasing. It's very likely they happened to also volunteer (or maybe be hired by) the campaign WHILE also happening to be employed by Google.

And Google would allow their employees to build IP for a particular political campaign? That is, they would waive their rights to the IP produced by their employees for the specific benefit of a particular candidate? That seems unlikely.

They took leaves of absence, with the company's blessing. And Google is incorporated in California, which has strict laws that employees are allowed to develop what they like when they're not on the clock using company resources.

It's interesting people here are calling this a "conspiracy theory" when I guarantee you there are hundreds if not thousands of posters here who remember the TGIF and groups discussions where this came up.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#267

Post by studentrob »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #264
studentrob wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make a good point. Antitrust actions should be a function of both behavior and size. IMO, actions of ISPs have been more nefarious than FANG, https://www.freepress.net/our-response/expert-analysis/expla... https://potsandpansbyccg.com/2019/02/13/isps-are-violating-t...

Why not both? (Apart from politics, obvs.) As an occasional content creator it's impossible not to be aware that the ISPs can limit access to the bandwidth I need, while any of the platforms I might use - PayPal, Ebay, Google/YouTube, Amazon, Apple, even Etsy - can kill an income stream at any time and keep all my earnings just because they want to, with no convincing good-faith resolution procedures and no (affordab…

> any of the platforms I might use - ... - can kill an income stream at any time

Being able to access the internet at a competitive rate is more important IMO. FANG platforms depend on your ability to reach them.

Net neutrality, I'm convinced, is one of the only unifying political issues today. Breaking up Google isn't going to make people forget the expensive, low quality service from monopolistic taxpayer-funded broadband networks.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#268

Post by Dylan16807 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #208
panarky wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which raises deep suspicions about the political motivations of this "investigation". Anti-trust is about companies using their market power to exclude rivals, raise prices, and hurt consumers. It's not about consumers overwhelmingly choosing a product because they like it more. Can anyone really say that Google's practices are more anti-competitive than, say, the dominant players in broadband or health insurance or…

This is a bold take! Google's close ties with the Obama administration makes the Trump administration suspicious!

Close ties are suspicious, strong swings in prosecution policy are also suspicious.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#269

Post by mav3rick »

luckylion wrote: post #247
googthrwy_ wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how the SWE’s and other senior people in this thread feel about working for a company that many now consider scum. All their excuses and retorts can honestly take a hike: It is my honest opinion that if you still work for Google you’re selling us all out. Googler here, I understand why you may think Google is evil now and I'm not going to say they are a perfect company. But I think you should consider that i…

> Many of us work on things that people like and improve our lives. Like what? Services that support the ads monetization, lock in users and strengthen control over the ecosystem?

Search is just one big example. If you say search hasn't improved humanity then you're a delusional troll.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#270

Post by [deleted] »

IshKebab wrote: post #255
SomeOldThrow wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Err, is there another reason for chrome to exist? Google is no philanthropist.

Yes, because before Chrome existed most people used IE which is very slow to create or adopt new web standards and is full of bugs. That makes developing complex websites really difficult. What company do we know that makes some the most complex web sites out there and would really benefit if the web had... I dunno WebGL so they could make a smooth mapping site, maybe with a 3D mode. Or a new version of HTTP so their…

[deleted]
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