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Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

nytimes.com

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Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#261

Post by kevmo »

psadauskas wrote: post #211

How about going after Comcast and Verizon first, the actual tech monopolies ? I already don’t use Facebook, I buy things online from places other than Amazon, and have email accounts that aren’t hosted by Google. However, all of that goes over Comcast’s network because that’s my only viable choice for Internet service. Also, while FAANG occasionally do things I don’t approve of, they don’t actively lobby congress for…

"But we need to do X first!" is not a good reason to not do Y, a different-but-still-good thing. All of these companies need to be broken up, and the Department of Justice Anti-Trust division has enough employees to do it.

These monolithic companies are sucking up all of the power in our economy and have destroyed the competitive markets. As the Economist recently said "Profits are too high. America needs a giant dose of competition." https://www.economist.com/briefing/2016/03/26/too-much-of-a-...

Capitalism without competition isn't really capitalism, but feudalism.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#262

Post by iamnubsrs »

vonmoltke wrote: post #236
giarc wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps grocery stores have done well to keep their brands on lower shelves and not end cap their own stuff. Amazon brands will often appear first in the list of results, which would be akin to putting Great Value products front and centre on all Walmart shelves.

CVS and Walgreens put their branded products right next to the name brands they are copying. They even color the packaging the same.

But Amazon just fullfils orders on most of the products while collecting data , where as brick and mortar stores resell the competitions products

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#263

Post by duxup »

earenndil wrote: post #248
duxup wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ii that really a thing though? Have we seen tech company lobbyists really push a lot of weight around? Companies that seemed to genuinely support net neutrality didn't seem to have much of any impact / participate all that much.

> Companies that seemed to genuinely support net neutrality Which companies were those? Netflix and google both made statements that they support net neutrality, but I didn't see them lift a finger to do anything about it: it seems to have been mostly a pr move.

That's my point. I don't feel like we've seen tech companies really lobby on a level where there is any impact on the national level.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#264

Post by wpietri »

bjourne wrote: post #128
mabbo wrote: post #97

There's precedent to this in the USA. The US Government once passed regulations that caused one of the largest companies in America to break up into three smaller companies. Today those, three companies are entirely independent, employ over 400,000 people combined, and have a combined net work of over $400B. Those companies are Boeing Aircraft (153k employees, $244B market value), United Technologies (202k employees,…

But the companies will all still have the same owners. So one wonders if splitting them actually helps with anything?

It's a legitimate concern. After Standard Oil was split up, Rockefeller still arranged meetings of the heads of the now-separated companies.

However as long as the companies are well regulated and publicly traded, I think the concern diminishes over time. Each manager has an incentive to look out for their own shareholders, their own bonuses. And if activist shareholders suspect one company is subsidizing another, they can happily buy the undervalued company, raise a ruckus (and maybe some lawsuits), and profit when the subsidies end.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#265

Post by smsx »

JackFr wrote: post #159
will_brown wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't think she realizes that splitting up amazon and amazon basics will do little to nothing. I think amazon : amazon basics is a great example of antitrust/unfair monopoly the same as google search : almost all consumer facing google products. Both amazon and google search are the dominate online market leaders in their respective categories. In amazons case they unfairly use their market position to begin offer…

> In amazons case they unfairly use their market position to begin offering amazon private label products on their platform. They know what users are looking for, spend the most on, and they can give their own products dominate positions in the UI. 1) How is that different than a department store? If you go into housewares at Macy's you'll see their own branded stuff along with other brands. So at issue is not the pr…

Regarding your second point, that is only good for the consumer in the short term. In the long term it harms consumer choice by making it untenable for smaller companies to sell on Amazon when they know a cheaper AmazonBasics version will be released as soon as they see any success.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#266

Post by baskint »

psadauskas wrote: post #211

How about going after Comcast and Verizon first, the actual tech monopolies ? I already don’t use Facebook, I buy things online from places other than Amazon, and have email accounts that aren’t hosted by Google. However, all of that goes over Comcast’s network because that’s my only viable choice for Internet service. Also, while FAANG occasionally do things I don’t approve of, they don’t actively lobby congress for…

agree, ISPs, cable-providers and wireless carriers should also be on the top of the list. Same here, there is no alternate to Comcast in where I live offering a similar service. They have been doing very slight improvements in service while almost doubling their prices.

Paying $110/month for a business line with 50 down / 10 up, while recently i was offered then refused a promotion upgrade to $140/month with 150 down / 25 up for 3 years. After three years, the pricing goes close $300.

Quite deceiving pushy sales people and their offerings with reduction in current pricing. I am considered a loyal grandfathered customer, yet i am totally stuck... :(

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#267

Post by jhall1468 »

sct202 wrote: post #84
nck4222 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, while I agree this a problem, large box retailers (Whole Foods before the Amazon acquisition, Walmart, etc) are well known for doing this as well. So if that's the line you draw, it extends further than just tech giants.

It's a little bit different though, because Amazon has 2 streams of how they get products: Amazon can buy branded from vendor and control price and selection, or those same vendors could list directly on Amazon (as FBA) and the vendor controls price and selection. Pop sockets got in a fight recently with Amazon, because they wanted to stay FBA in order to have better control of selection and pricing, but Amazon was t…

Right, and Walmart only allows products in its store under their terms which is far more restrictive, so I'm failing to understand how this model is worse for competition than Walmart's.

And what happened with PopSockets didn't quite work that way. They were already a vendor on Amazon, and they wanted to remove themselves as a direct vendor and designate a single reseller as their "approved" FBA on Amazon.

So they wanted to change the terms of the agreement, Amazon said no, and that was that.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#268

Post by moate »

swarnie_ wrote: post #216
the_trapper wrote: post #194

I think breaking up the ISPs and media conglomerates would be much more impactful. I can't think of a single market segment where Google and Amazon lack effective competition. Facebook is already bleeding users, and how would you break up a social media company in an impactful way anyhow? Facebook's ventures outside of social media aren't even close to being monopolies.

> I think breaking up the ISPs and media conglomerates would be much more impactful. While i agree with you wholeheartedly i don't know anyone who has ever got elected by attacking the media and big business.

Do you mean both at the same time? If not, Teddy Roosevelt and Donald Trump would like to speak to you about their campaigns.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#269

Post by mywittyname »

ortusdux wrote: post #249
mabbo wrote: post #97

There's precedent to this in the USA. The US Government once passed regulations that caused one of the largest companies in America to break up into three smaller companies. Today those, three companies are entirely independent, employ over 400,000 people combined, and have a combined net work of over $400B. Those companies are Boeing Aircraft (153k employees, $244B market value), United Technologies (202k employees,…

We also broke up Ma Bell back in 84 and it looks like they are on their way to fully reuniting as an even larger monopoly. https://i.imgur.com/rMFqmbt.jpg https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/03/att-time-warner...

That's a different failure. The government should have never allowed for the subsequent mergers.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#270

Post by cheald »

bloorp wrote: post #257
psadauskas wrote: post #211

How about going after Comcast and Verizon first, the actual tech monopolies ? I already don’t use Facebook, I buy things online from places other than Amazon, and have email accounts that aren’t hosted by Google. However, all of that goes over Comcast’s network because that’s my only viable choice for Internet service. Also, while FAANG occasionally do things I don’t approve of, they don’t actively lobby congress for…

A counter-argument is that even someone like you who doesn't use facebook, amazon, and google is still irrevocably affected by their power and behaviors. You seem to think you've escaped them, but you surely have a Shadow Profile in facebook, you browse websites that show you AdSense ads (google), and oh yeah, your civic institutions are manipulable via popular opinion on facebook. Hmmm, you do have a strong point ab…

And how would breaking them up prevent any of that? Facebook doesn't have a monopoly on data collection, Google doesn't have a monopoly on display advertising, and Facebook doesn't have a monopoly on peer pressure.
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