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Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

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Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#261

Post by flyingpenguin »

rubidium wrote: post #210
adrianN wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sensors on humans don't work well in snow or rain either. That doesn't stop us from driving.

They work amazing when properly developed. Growing up in a land with 4-5 months of winter, I was very comfortable in the snow and ice. Still scary as hell at times but the human body is remarkably adaptable to the environment. 30 feet visibility with snow and ice on the roads engages all the senses (except smell). Listening to the sound the tires are making helps know what they’re encountering. Inner ears helping kno…

> as well as some more sensors than lidar.

Like... cameras behind some kind of glass with special heaters and moving wipe thingies to keep the glass clean? I am sure I have seen something like this working somewhere.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#262

Post by homarp »

flyingpenguin wrote: post #259
zbentley wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With that attitude, you are stuck in the past and don't want to make progress with technology. The statement you quoted is qualified, not an assertion of impossibility. Your claim is silly; the alternative to breathless hype isn't Luddism, it's getting educated about a field and proceeding, if possible, in an informed way. Claiming delusional enthusiasm (with a side of hucksterism and a strong odor of financial inc…

I have always wondered about this sensor thing. We drive and our only sensors are a pair of cameras on a mobile swivel and two microphones. I feel like at Some point we have to have enough computing power to just stick Multiple Cameras behind glass with wipers and dehumidifiers and alarms if they are obstructed. Basically just humans but better?

you forgot our brain...

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#263

Post by bunnycorn »

jrockway wrote: post #232
bunnycorn wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because Apple doesn't completely dominate the market of computers above $1000 or nothing... It's just stupid people like us that buy their computers... Stupid people like engineers at actual first tier tech corporations. First tier arts and entertainment companies and individual artists.

The point is that that market is tiny compared to the people that buy iPhones. I also think Apple is doing good things on turning the iPad into a general purpose computing device. For my use cases (ssh somewhere to do work), it is way easier to manage than a laptop, and smaller. I imagine that as the product improves more people are going to make the jump, leaving MacOS in a weird place. (I switched from a Surface Pr…

Of course it is "tinier", because the PC market (and Macs are PCs) is much smaller than the phone market.

And has been shrinking since 2010... must be a coincidence as Apple introduced the iPad that year...

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#264

Post by mbrumlow »

zbentley wrote: post #248
pkhamre wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the Medium-article you posted: > In short, sensors on autonomous vehicles don’t work well in snow or rain—and that may never change. With that attitude, you are stuck in the past and don't want to make progress with technology.

> With that attitude, you are stuck in the past and don't want to make progress with technology. The statement you quoted is qualified, not an assertion of impossibility. Your claim is silly; the alternative to breathless hype isn't Luddism, it's getting educated about a field and proceeding, if possible, in an informed way. Claiming delusional enthusiasm (with a side of hucksterism and a strong odor of financial inc…

I like your words.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#265

Post by SomeHacker44 »

flyingpenguin wrote: post #259
zbentley wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With that attitude, you are stuck in the past and don't want to make progress with technology. The statement you quoted is qualified, not an assertion of impossibility. Your claim is silly; the alternative to breathless hype isn't Luddism, it's getting educated about a field and proceeding, if possible, in an informed way. Claiming delusional enthusiasm (with a side of hucksterism and a strong odor of financial inc…

I have always wondered about this sensor thing. We drive and our only sensors are a pair of cameras on a mobile swivel and two microphones. I feel like at Some point we have to have enough computing power to just stick Multiple Cameras behind glass with wipers and dehumidifiers and alarms if they are obstructed. Basically just humans but better?

We have additional sensors useful for driving: force sensors on the steering wheel (works better with lower levels of power steering) as well as our accelerometers in our inner ear. The latter has redundancies in pressure sensors located around the body, though to be fair I only used those back in my car racing days.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#266

Post by bunnycorn »

minikites wrote: post #222
bunnycorn wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ohhh, that hate... Apple is the most reliable computer manufacturer of all, according to ConsumerReports actual statistics. Now according to BS fake news that is paid by Apple competition, yes, there are lots of problems with Apple computers (like 3 or 5 people that complained on Twitter), and nothing with Apple competitive products ever (unless it's a widespread recall like with Samsung...) Also, what's your problem…

Reliability? They can't make a laptop keyboard that survives an encounter with a crumb and if you open your laptop too many times the video cable gets severed: https://ifixit.org/blog/12903/

Wow! You really believe that a crumb can break a MBP keyboard?

God have mercy on your soul.

Really, is that the best that Apple competitors can do!?

You are all ridiculous, there are MILLIONS of MBPs out there, must all those millions live in a enclosed dome where no dust can get in.

Seriously, nobody has time for your anti-Apple nonsense, I don't know why I even replied.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#267

Post by SomeHacker44 »

kobbe wrote: post #235
toasterlovin wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren’t the Tesla Model S/X the safest cars in the world, though?

He ment crash saftey :) If you are in a collition, Volvo is world leading. Tesla is only safer because is can break in advance.

Unintentionally hilarious use of homonym, thanks! (Cars that can't be driven can't get into many accidents...)

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#269

Post by simonh »

spacenick88 wrote: post #257
simonh wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans can make risk/reward calculations that computers can't. Top take an extreme example, a given set of snow and ice conditions might be bad enough that any reasonable person would not want to drive in them. In such a situation, any well designed self-driving car would refuse to drive. BUT my wife is pregnant, it's a difficult pregnancy with a high risk of death for her and the infant, and she's suddenly gone into…

So would we call it a loss of autonomy if a human occupant would only grant an override saying "Standing still is not an option!"? I guess you would want such a feature when there is no steering wheel, e.g. if there is a forest fire close behind you. While a computer can't judge that situation and doesn't "care" if it is destroyed it very well can keep driving no matter what.

A forest fire is a really good challenge scenario. The threat isn't really anything to do with driving or road hazards as such, it's an out of context threat.

It's these out of context situations that are my long term issue with losing the steering wheel. A typical example would be arriving at a country fair and parking in a field. I want to park on the side of the field that's currently in sunlight, but over the next hour will be shaded by those trees, near the gate but not too near the toilets, but not next to that patch of wet ground.

What kind of UI does the car need to have for me to specify exactly how and where I want it to park, without me actually driving it? Frankly I think this is level 6+. Level 5 is usually described as a self driving taxi, but family vehicles are used for things no taxi would ever have to deal with.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#270

Post by dmitriid »

no1youknowz wrote: post #116
chx wrote: post #93

Maybe Apple doesn't want to pursue a dream which, as far as we know, can only have a limited outcome? They don't really like such compromises in products. Check this: https://medium.com/s/story/self-driving-cars-will-always-be-... > Waymo’s CEO, John Krafcik, has admitted that a self-driving car that can drive in any condition, on any road, without ever needing a human to take control—usually called a “level five” au…

This article is a bit sketchy, but serves my point-ish. They say Volvo is going to release a true self-driving car by 2021. But then it goes on to mention level 4. Let's pull it back a little and say by 2021, they release level 4. If any automaker is going to do Level 5 in the snow. It's going to be Volvo. Being a Swedish company (albeit owned by a Chinese firm now), they have a particular track record when it comes…

Current breed of Volvos are already amazing at assisting drivers. Lane control + speed control + steering control is already as close to autonomous driving as anything out there on the market.

But they are doing the smart thing:

- they keep these things separate and always under driver's control

- they downplay the significance of these systems and don't market as THE BEST EVER THING ULTRA POWERFUL UNBELIEVABLE BREAKTHTROUGH UNRIVALLED BY COMPETITION ©™ They are simply adding these features one by one to all their line-up

- they have a specific goal called Vision 2020 [1]: "Vision 2020 is about reducing the number of people that die or are seriously injured in road traffic accidents to zero." This is a way more powerful and important goal than the self-serving goal of creating autonomous cars.

- oh. And yes, they work in conditions that are way more different than California. Sweden has such things as constant low sun, snow, rain, sleet, active wildlife etc. etc.

So yes, all things considered I'd root for Volvo, not for Tesla or any other American company.

[1] https://group.volvocars.com/company/vision

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