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Lies We Tell Kids

paulgraham.com

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Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#261

Post by mhartl »

hugh wrote: post #235
jganetsk wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We aren't talking about the users of this board, we are talking about the average American who went through the public education system. 99.9% of them have heard of George Washington Carver, but not of Onsager and Landau.

Oh, I interpreted "almost no one reading this knows..." as referring to the users of this board.

Your original interpretation was right. Perhaps I underestimated the number of physicists hanging out here. (I hope so! It would be cool to think people here know who these guys are.) In any case, the original point remains: even on Hacker News, Marie Curie is far better-known than Lev Landau, and it's not because she was the greater scientist.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#262

Post by pfedor »

A few years ago, Paul Graham wrote: "When you find something you can't say, what do you do with it? My advice is, don't say it." This essay makes me wonder if he chose not to follow his own advice. If he did, I wonder if it will do him much good. It surely will make reading his essays even more interesting.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#263

Post by pfedor »

asnyder wrote: post #134
Prrometheus wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was her work more important than Newton's, Darwin's, or Watson's? I'm not questioning that she was a great scientist. However, if you are going to remember three, she should not be one of them.

If you had to remember only three you could easily have an argument debating the merits of any three scientists. I wouldn't say her work is more important than those three, but I would say it's on that level. The book "Six Great Scientists" by J.G Crowther seems to think so too. It's quite unfortunate that Wikipedia has very little on her.

Or maybe J.G. Crowther was also fond of diversity.

BTW the most important woman in the history of science was Emmy Noether. Her theorem is central to Classical Mechanics and very important also in Quantum Field Theory.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#264

Post by wrinkles »

I suggest to just shut the fuck up, and just spend quiet time with your kids. Listen to them. Look them in the eye, see who they really are, and what they need. Most of what they learn is not what you say, but what you do and who you are, and how you treat them and others. Talk less and say more.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#265

Post by atr »

I think one of the best ways that I described a similar feeling was asking others when they had questions, during their teens, nobody--including their best teachers--could answer.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#267

Post by rsheridan6 »

OneSeventeen wrote: post #240
rsheridan6 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I teach my child not to swear because OTHER adults think there's something wrong with it. I truly don't give a fuck, but I don't want my son to be banned from his best friend's house because his mom heard him say "fuck."

As someone who's considered this tactic (I'm some years away from having children, but planning seems like a good idea), I'm interested in how that's working out. Have you ruined cursing for your kid as some people imply this tactic would?

Well, he's 4 and, although he knows every bad word except "cunt," he knows better than to say them, at least in front of grown-ups. But cursing is not ruined for him - he still thinks cursing is hilarious and he frequently asks me to say a bad word.

I would say it's working out. He doesn't offend the tribal elders and I don't have to lie by simulating outrage - I've told him the real reason why he can't curse.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#268

Post by [deleted] »

rsheridan6 wrote: post #188
astine wrote: post #22

Does it count as a 'lie' if it is believed by the parent? The reason that parents don't want kids to swear is because they genuinely believe that it is wrong for some reason. The don't know the reason themselves, and so break the rule and become hypocrites, but they still believe that it is wrong and want their children to do better than they did. With regard to group identity (and religion,) most parents actually ad…

I teach my child not to swear because OTHER adults think there's something wrong with it. I truly don't give a fuck, but I don't want my son to be banned from his best friend's house because his mom heard him say "fuck."

[deleted]

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#269

Post by bobhyman »

mechanical_fish wrote: post #153
greendestiny wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that I've ever read a really good account of the hows and whys of swearing. It seems to me the idea that we're mistaken that swear words are taboo completely misses the fact that we defined these words as taboo to start with. I think restricting children from swearing is in part to give more power to swear words, because as adults we find it useful to have these powerful words. Teaching children that swe…

This is basically right. The words are taboo because it's useful to have taboo words, so the culture deliberately makes them so. Taboo words are useful because they transcend politeness. If a normally civil person comes into your dinner party and tells you that the fucking ceiling is about to fall down , you get moving . You don't waste time looking around for the ironic smile. You don't reproach the person for speak…

The spectrum of motivations for the pressure we put on kids to not "swear" includes "being polite" and "being polite" is related to communication skill. There is a quote attributed to Mark Twain which equates politeness with something which prevents people at the dinner table from killing each other.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#270

Post by technoguyrob »

rsheridan6 wrote: post #267
OneSeventeen wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's considered this tactic (I'm some years away from having children, but planning seems like a good idea), I'm interested in how that's working out. Have you ruined cursing for your kid as some people imply this tactic would?

Well, he's 4 and, although he knows every bad word except "cunt," he knows better than to say them, at least in front of grown-ups. But cursing is not ruined for him - he still thinks cursing is hilarious and he frequently asks me to say a bad word. I would say it's working out. He doesn't offend the tribal elders and I don't have to lie by simulating outrage - I've told him the real reason why he can't curse.

Why not cunt?
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