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SIPC Says It Has Serious Concerns About Robinhood's New Product

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Re: SIPC Says It Has Serious Concerns About Robinhood's New Product

#261
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This works in certain industries (e.g. Uber), but not in others, especially heavily regulated ones.

Didn't Uber's self-driving car hit and kill a jaywalker?

Didn't seem to stop them for long:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/02/tech/uber-self-driving-tests/...

To be fair, they're proposing significantly improved safety procedures. To also be fair, there are not many people (as opposed to corporations) who would be out on good behavior 6 months after being convicted of vehicular manslaughter.

Re: SIPC Says It Has Serious Concerns About Robinhood's New Product

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you buy a bond and the interest rate goes up, the nominal value of the debt goes down when the interest rate goes up, while with bank accounts they stay the same. Ex: You buy a $100 bond at %3, then the prime rate goes up %1 so the typical market price of bonds of your class are now %4. Now your bond is worth less than $100 if you were to liquidate it. Big difference.

that's a good point. However, in this case, won't it be more like a bond-fund, where the fund essentially has a ladder of bonds that are constantly expiring and getting reinvested (and also investing new investments from retail investors), and so the overall value of the fund may still remain close to $100. I could well be wrong, so please feel free to correct me! Trying to learn.

There is a strong difference between Yield to Maturity and effective yield. Yes, If they hold bonds until they mature, specifically government bonds, there will be no loss in principle.

What people seem to be misunderstanding is that a yield curve exists. If they were to go the safe route of short maturities, the interest rates will be must lower than long dated securities. If they reach for yield in longer term securities, they will have to mark to market when interest rates rise (which they most likely will due to the fed signaling that they'll be tightening in 2019).

You can't have your cake and eat it too

Re: SIPC Says It Has Serious Concerns About Robinhood's New Product

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s because interest rates were around that level at the time and the bank was also getting paid that much to hold your money. It wasn’t a conspiracy. Consumer savings accounts had absolutely nothing to do with the crisis. Like, on the list of “things that caused the crisis,” they would literally be dead last. Did you know your parents had savings accounts that delivered 10% interest at one time? Look up historica…

> Consumer savings accounts had absolutely nothing to do with the crisis. That's just not true. A significant contributor to the mortgage crisis is that banks loan out savings that are backed by the government. Savers deposit their money with banks even if those banks are underwriting risky mortgages

That’s like saying a significant contributor to the mortgage crisis was restaurants, because restaurants pay interest on their loans to banks which the banks then used to underwrite risky mortgages.

Not sure I follow your argument. How did savings accounts that offered 4% cause the crisis?

Re: SIPC Says It Has Serious Concerns About Robinhood's New Product

#264
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This helps: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Supranat...

needs ECJ jurisdiction, and ECHR. literally unplayable. but for real, country names would be helpful too

ECJ jurisdiction is the EU, and the ECHR applies to all Council of Europe members.

Re: SIPC Says It Has Serious Concerns About Robinhood's New Product

#265
post #177
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of people should just be maxing out their 401k and investing in index funds. They shouldn't be using Robinhood to buy individual stocks, buy cryptocurrency, or do options trading.

> They shouldn't be using Robinhood to buy individual stocks, buy cryptocurrency, or do options trading. What if they do it for fun? Personally, I would have fun having a few thousands there (but I'm Canadian), it's not worse than having a few thousands over a gaming computer, or gambling at the casino. If you consider Robinhood as the way to finance your retirement, well you are doing something pretty bad, but that…

If you understand what you're signing up for and still want to dabble in stock trading for fun then sure. Go wild. Everyone needs a hobby. But the homepage of robinhood.com has the following call to action above the fold:

> Investing, Checking & Savings. All for Free.

> Robinhood gives you the tools you need to grow your savings, invest in your future, and do more with your money.

Does that sound like "this is not an appropriate way to finance your retirement" to you?

Re: SIPC Says It Has Serious Concerns About Robinhood's New Product

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they make a ton of money but give users an easy 3% account I wont complain. Why is everyone so mad at them for being successful when they are offering cheaper services then the rest of the market!? Do they need to hire a homeless CEO to actually qualify as doing something good for society overall?

They are exposing a vulnerable and naive class of investors to a higher-risk asset class in an arguably deceitful way. If their 3% account was SPIC protected (and therefore low-to-no risk), this would be a totally different conversation.

How dare they give people more options for investment! Despicable.

Re: SIPC Says It Has Serious Concerns About Robinhood's New Product

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently they purposely called it a "checking & savings" account because they were well aware that technically it is neither a "checking" nor a "savings" account and that a "checking & savings" account does not really exist to protect themselves from accusations of false claims...

They are still claiming it is SIPC insured- which is false, regardless of what you call it.

It's not necessarily false - that's up for various attorneys to decide.

Re: SIPC Says It Has Serious Concerns About Robinhood's New Product

#268
post #23
post #11

> “I disagree with the statement that these funds are protected by SIPC,” Stephen Harbeck, president and chief executive officer of SIPC How the hell did this product get launched?

Probably because someone took "ask for forgiveness, not permission" a bit too far.

Or the president of SIPC is not speaking authoritatively for the organization and doesn't realize the RH lawyers have already been talking with SIPC about this.

Of course, maybe that didn't happen, but between the idea that RH would build and announce a new product without running past the proper regulatory authorities, and the idea that the president of SIPC might just be wrong ... well, the latter seems more plausible to me.

Re: SIPC Says It Has Serious Concerns About Robinhood's New Product

#269
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When it all went belly up those savers realized these Icelandic banks were not quite the same thing as UK banks and Iceland refused to make depositors whole. That's a very inaccurate recalling of history which you can see from reading the intro to the relevant Wikipedia article[1] and a summary of the EFTA Court's decision on the matter[2]. The case centered around a dispute between mainly Britain, The Netherlands…

I read both your links, and I don't think my characterization is an inaccurate recalling of history at all. From the second and third paragraphs of that wikipedia page: ---- When Landsbanki was placed into receivership by the Icelandic Financial Supervisory Authority (FME), 343,306 retail depositors in the UK and Netherlands that held accounts in the "Icesave" branch of Landsbanki lost a total of €6.7bn of savings. B…

I took issue with the abrupt ending of "refused to make depositors whole[...]".

That sounds like unilateral action, whereas what happened was that there was a dispute about how deposit guarantees should be treated within the EFTA agreement, and all parties involved ultimately didn't insist on what they individually felt like doing, but followed the rulings of the EFTA Court.

But yes, it was a big learning experience for everyone involved. But that's exactly the reason it's important to make the distinction.

It's not that Iceland was unilaterally callous and pursuing those relatively small amounts was deemed small potatoes. Rather, EFTA rules were clarified in a way that would also apply to e.g. French depositors in Danish banks should a similar Danish default occur in the future.

What happened with domestic depositors is that the Icelandic state was free to selectively grant benefits to whomever it pleased once it became clear that its banks weren't subject to the EFTA deposit guarantees for anyone.

That's also an important distinction, and is why the action didn't violate the rules of the trade area.

Re: SIPC Says It Has Serious Concerns About Robinhood's New Product

#270

I don't understand the infatuation silicon valley has of Robinhood. Take almost every possible bad idea about personal finance and put them in an app, you get Robinhood. The business model is also suspect, I think there's a little more that hasn't been disclosed and I suspect the chase for cash started when the crypto currency fad started deflating in a hurry. I wonder if Robinhood is hiding something bigger under th…

They jettisoned the gains on the stock of a company which was acquired from my account because I missed a single email message. Kind of strange when their app has no problem delivering push notifications all day. Not sure if that was legal or not, but they definitely look more like a gambling app or sketchy forex trading site than a place to put retirement savings.
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