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Tell HN: Uptick in mean-spirited comments

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Re: Tell HN: Uptick in mean-spirited comments

#261

Post by mkr-hn »

ahoyhere wrote: post #257
mkr-hn wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's something I wish HN could find a middle ground on. I _like_ Reddit. It's fun, and if you don't like the conversation, you can hide it and move on. On HN, I can chat with some of the most influential people in technology, and it's great. But the moment anyone cracks a joke? Downvoted, sometimes in to oblivion. I find it hard to believe such a sharp group of people would be so averse to humor, but the votes seem…

The reason seems to be that HNers feel like they have to project an ultra-logical persona at all times. Even Spock-like. How'd it get started? I wish I knew. It's not just jokes. I've experimented: I can make the most insightful and practical comment in the whole thread, but if I use "cuz" or "gonna," or "man," or more than a single (maybe two) exclamation points in the whole thing, no upvotes for me! But the more ps…

I think that's why I've been spending more time back at Reddit than HN lately. They talk about the same stuff with the same depth, but they have more fun doing it.

Even Einstein wasn't afraid to stick his tongue out for the camera.

Re: Tell HN: Uptick in mean-spirited comments

#262

Post by AmitinLA »

pg wrote: post #186
chaosmachine wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downvoted comments are bad for the community. They are literally negative. Remove downvotes. Anything that truly deserves downvotes probably deserves flagging/deading, too. Downvotes change how you think about reading comments. Instead of "was this helpful?" you're thinking "do i love this or hate this?". It's polarizing, and as the number of users increases, it's easy for a comment to hit -4 in a couple minutes. Peo…

I've often thought of it. The reason I had downvotes originally was to deter people from saying things that were mean or stupid. But maybe the right way to deal with that is a separate mechanism from voting, as it is with stories. Maybe the right combo for comments is an uparrow, plus a flag link, and encourage users to flag comments that are mean or stupid. I'll think about the real solution more after I'm done read…

I'm relatively new to this community, but I've thought for a while that the problem with any points-based system is the inherent competitive nature. One of the interesting things I've learned in improv classes is the "Yes, and..." structure that performers use to build on each others performances to create something bigger and better.[1] Structurally this may be as simple as implementing a mandatory "Yes, and..." string to the beginning of each comment. Maybe it is only displayed as the user is writing comments, but it could be a simple, effective nudge to be more constructive used in conjunction with the existing points system.

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvisational_theatre

Re: Tell HN: Uptick in mean-spirited comments

#263

Post by binspace »

resdirector wrote: post #227
pg wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've often thought of it. The reason I had downvotes originally was to deter people from saying things that were mean or stupid. But maybe the right way to deal with that is a separate mechanism from voting, as it is with stories. Maybe the right combo for comments is an uparrow, plus a flag link, and encourage users to flag comments that are mean or stupid. I'll think about the real solution more after I'm done read…

We had a saying in physics: "there are no stupid questions, (only stupid people)". We encouraged people to ask stupid questions, because (a) quite often that's the only way you learn, (b) it encourages shy people to speak up, and, (c) sometimes a stupid question isn't stupid at all, and leads to a deeper insight. I'm a little disappointed that HN isn't like this. Most of the time I have a "stupid question", but I don…

Agreed. Punishing people who make stupid comments seems like it causes resentment and anger and thus more stupid comments.

I wonder if there a parallel with the whole punishment vs rehabilitation aspect of justice systems. In essence, a justice system is a social tool to cause people to act a certain way. Some techniques are better than others.

Re: Tell HN: Uptick in mean-spirited comments

#264

Post by binspace »

resdirector wrote: post #227
pg wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've often thought of it. The reason I had downvotes originally was to deter people from saying things that were mean or stupid. But maybe the right way to deal with that is a separate mechanism from voting, as it is with stories. Maybe the right combo for comments is an uparrow, plus a flag link, and encourage users to flag comments that are mean or stupid. I'll think about the real solution more after I'm done read…

We had a saying in physics: "there are no stupid questions, (only stupid people)". We encouraged people to ask stupid questions, because (a) quite often that's the only way you learn, (b) it encourages shy people to speak up, and, (c) sometimes a stupid question isn't stupid at all, and leads to a deeper insight. I'm a little disappointed that HN isn't like this. Most of the time I have a "stupid question", but I don…

Agreed. Punishing people who make stupid comments seems like it causes resentment and anger and thus more stupid comments.

I wonder if there a parallel with the whole punishment vs rehabilitation aspect of the justice systems. In essence, a justice system is a social tool to cause people to act a certain way. Some techniques are better than others.

Re: Tell HN: Uptick in mean-spirited comments

#265

Post by petervandijck »

gruseom wrote: post #216
petervandijck wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had to close a large-ish site of mine due to meanness. Things can get very nasty online, it's hard to really understand until you've tried running one of these.

Sounds like you have a lot more experience than most of us. What's in the intersection of that and your observations of HN?

(Sorry I don't understand the question.)

Re: Tell HN: Uptick in mean-spirited comments

#266

Post by [deleted] »

hasenj wrote: post #113
pjscott wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's what you can do: 1. Avoid meta threads. 2. Downvote off-topic meta-discussion in other threads. 3. Do not add to the meta-discussion; just downvote and move on. In this way, you can express your distaste for such discussion and avoid most of it with very minimal effort.

isn't this a mean-spirited comment?

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: Uptick in mean-spirited comments

#267

Post by csomar »

mehmeh wrote: post #181
csomar wrote: post #176

As someone who was a "bad" user (under another username); posting rather useless, short, unsighted comments and submissions; I think the best way is to "educate people". This is not only a HN culture, it's a civilian culture. Limit the freedom of newbies until they are more mature. When you are committed to the community, you become more responsible and work toward creating a name/friends. When you are new, you prett…

I am a bad user who was a good user. I stopped bothering after a few incidents where content-free snarky bullshit written in response to my genuine comments was upvoted, and pg was unwilling to remove any of it. Then, I got banned for some very genuine, but negative, opinions. I don't expect people to agree with them, but banning me for them again seemed asinine. I didn't bother changing my proxy, so this will probab…

There is no genuine and negative comment. If it's a good comment, then it's positive whether you agree with the OP or not.

Can you point me to some comments if they are still available?

Re: Tell HN: Uptick in mean-spirited comments

#268

Post by indiejade »

resdirector wrote: post #239
GHFigs wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace the total karma score by the username in the upper right of the page with the average that's already visible on the profile page. An average is a better indicator to the user of how well they are engaging with the site. It only goes up if the user consistently posts worthwhile comments, which rewards being selective about when you post and thoughtful about what you post. Fewer and better is encouraged. Consis…

Lets hide all karma. Lets keep the up/down voting arrows, and let the karma operate in the background in the usual way (percolating good comments/submissions to the top, and letting bad comments fall through). But lets just not show karma. Anywhere . Thus keep the quality of submissions/comments the same, and keep the eyeballs focused on what really matters: good articles and good comments .

This is really the best solution because it creates disincentive for upvoting "on the bandwagon," as so often occurs.

Re: Tell HN: Uptick in mean-spirited comments

#269

Post by izendejas »

resdirector wrote: post #227
pg wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've often thought of it. The reason I had downvotes originally was to deter people from saying things that were mean or stupid. But maybe the right way to deal with that is a separate mechanism from voting, as it is with stories. Maybe the right combo for comments is an uparrow, plus a flag link, and encourage users to flag comments that are mean or stupid. I'll think about the real solution more after I'm done read…

We had a saying in physics: "there are no stupid questions, (only stupid people)". We encouraged people to ask stupid questions, because (a) quite often that's the only way you learn, (b) it encourages shy people to speak up, and, (c) sometimes a stupid question isn't stupid at all, and leads to a deeper insight. I'm a little disappointed that HN isn't like this. Most of the time I have a "stupid question", but I don…

"Stupid" comments are one thing, "stupid" questions are another. With "stupid" questions you at least demonstrate a willingness to learn and not just spew political talking points, biases, etc.

I self-censor because of this and think we shouldn't mind. I end up writing comments I don't submit, but I consider the exercise worthwhile because forcing myself to write my thoughts out and then judging whether they're truly helpful/insightful teaches me what knowledge gaps I need to fill eventually and where I'm just falling back on preconceived notions/biases to form my opinions.

So if you think you'll be down-voted ask yourself why. If you don't know why, then re-formulate your post as question to understand others' reasoning.

Re: Tell HN: Uptick in mean-spirited comments

#270

Post by [deleted] »

pg wrote: post #215
GHFigs wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace the total karma score by the username in the upper right of the page with the average that's already visible on the profile page. An average is a better indicator to the user of how well they are engaging with the site. It only goes up if the user consistently posts worthwhile comments, which rewards being selective about when you post and thoughtful about what you post. Fewer and better is encouraged. Consis…

Ok, let's try that for a while.

[deleted]
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