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The State of JavaScript 2018

2018.stateofjs.com

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Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#261

Post by sgdesign »

deltron3030 wrote: post #129
sgdesign wrote: post #2

Co-author of the survey here, thanks for posting! Happy to answer any questions :) (As long as the question is not something along the lines of "My favorite library Foo.js is doing pretty poorly in your survey, surely there must be an issue with your methodology?")

Are you surprised by the low percentage of solo devs and small teams (startups) in your survey? How do you think does this bias towards "enterprise" affect more full featured solutions like Meteor, that are more geared towards small teams and indie hackers?

Not really surprised. And I think Meteor got in trouble precisely because it appealed mostly to small teams, so that doesn't seem to be a viable business model.

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#262

Post by spankalee »

tracker1 wrote: post #247
no_gravity wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. If I was to place a bet on which framework will grow faster over the next year, I would pick Vue.

I think React has pretty much reached saturation in terms of raw percentage. I think Vue is going to continue to erode from Angular. Also, I'd be surprised if a revised Polymer didn't see some growth since the other browsers are now starting to support a lot of the vdom features.

We have a revised Polymer, two in fact.

First is Polymer 3, which is Polymer available as standard JS modules and on npm for the first time ever. Dropping the huge barriers to usage of Bower and HTML Imports should have a large impact all on their own.

The other is lit-html and LitELement. lit-html is a template system that's much better suited to being embedded in JavaScript, and allows a very similar style and expressiveness of JSX without the VDOM overhead or a compiler. We've seen a lot of excitement and uptake of lit-html independent even of our other projects. LitElement is a Web Components base class that does async rendering with lit-html.

Given what we've seen with lit-html early adopters, I think trends will look a lot different in future surveys (even as flawed as this survey is).

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#263

Post by dentemple »

userbinator wrote: post #121
gagege wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he kind of had a good point. It would be nice to have a single set of tools that can always get the job done no matter what.

Not long ago I had to write some JS (had to, not wanted to) to do something on a site, and got something working based on what I knew, only to be derided by a "real JS developer" that my code was "deprecated", "not following best practices", "not modern", etc. He gave me his version which was around 10x more code and only worked in a subset of the latest browsers, while mine not only did but would probably work in ev…

If his ES6 required 10x more code than your ES5, then he doesn't actually know ES6.

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#264

Post by equasar »

tracker1 wrote: post #236
sAbakumoff wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO Angular in its recent versions is the most simple front-end framework ever. It's not even JS anymore. It's type script + reactive framework. Those 2 things makes programming extremely easy.

I keep repeating myself here... import React from 'React'; export default ({name}) => Hello {name} ; Now duplicate in Angular and tell me it's simpler.

what's the point of this? I mean, Angular has its use cases aswell as React does. The point you are trying to achieve leads to nothing.

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#265

Post by equasar »

akvadrako wrote: post #209
blauditore wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Angular is dead? Most don't even want to touch it again Quite the opposite is happening from what I'm seeing. More people seem to move away from React towards Angular, but that's just my anecdotal observation.

That's just absurd - I have no love for React, but I can't imagine why anybody would adopt Angular now.

why? because you don't like it? Angular 2+ is the perfect transition for most of the developers who are used to do Desktop or Backend development and want to jump to front end stuff. In the enterprise, Angular 2+ is loved over any other framework. Is the best one? who cares.

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#266

Post by gymshoes »

nepeckman wrote: post #148

The weirdest part of this survey is in many categories, the most experienced developers (and by extension, the highest paid) were using a less popular technology. Over 50% of people surveyed had heard of ClojureScript and were not interested, but the developers who used it and liked it had the highest average years of experience and highest average salary. Same goes for Ember and Polymer for frameworks, and Relay for…

I suppose there are 2 reasons for it:

1. Popular languages would have lot more developers so lesser salary (Supply-Demand)

2. Since the newer devs have started their careers when the newer languages have started to get mainstream, more senior devs are the ones who remain with the niche languages.

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#267

Post by gymshoes »

liquidcool wrote: post #249

It seems to me that like last year, several countries with very large developer bases are underrepresented. I'm thinking of India and the Philippines in particular, where English is not an issue. I'm an American, but I'd like to get a good global picture. In addition, it would be good to see other indicators such as downloads, jobs (admittedly hard to measure accurately), BuiltWith trends, etc. Considering the millio…

I felt that the average salary for India was very high. I was hoping to see somewhere near $20000 but it was $30600

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#268

Post by sAbakumoff »

nobleach wrote: post #253
sAbakumoff wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO Angular in its recent versions is the most simple front-end framework ever. It's not even JS anymore. It's type script + reactive framework. Those 2 things makes programming extremely easy.

After having dropped Angular in the 1.3.x days, I was pleasantly surprised by how much it's changed. There are still a few mental concepts a new programmer would have to grasp (DI, observables, OO, type-safety) but overall, it's not too bad. I'm not sure I could call it "simple" though. Maybe I'm conflating simple with "easy". I'm of the few that still believe in Redux though. A one-way data flow, a finite state-mach…

All right, my background is 10 years of .NET programming where DI, OOP, type safety are fundamental concepts, so having these things in the front-end framework is extremely helpful.

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#269

Post by sAbakumoff »

tracker1 wrote: post #236
sAbakumoff wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO Angular in its recent versions is the most simple front-end framework ever. It's not even JS anymore. It's type script + reactive framework. Those 2 things makes programming extremely easy.

I keep repeating myself here... import React from 'React'; export default ({name}) => Hello {name} ; Now duplicate in Angular and tell me it's simpler.

If I were to write such an app, html + vanilla js is more than enough.

Re: The State of JavaScript 2018

#270

Post by devxpy »

untog wrote: post #192
thrower123 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, the Stockholm Syndrome. I still swear a blue streak when I get pulled from my nice backend world over to do some trivial UI work on the front-end, and it takes me frigging forever because there's no type system, and no compiler, and the tooling is stone age, and it takes me longer to run gulp and babel to build it to see changes than building my entire backend solution and running all my tests. It's all we've go…

That isn't surprising because the backend is simple and the frontend is not. By that, I mean that you get to choose your entire playing field on the backend. What language are you going to use? What database? What OS will it run on? What (reliable) network connection? All can be tailored to your heart's desire. No such luck on the frontend. Your code is going to run on a diverse set of clients, which you have no cont…

These technical problems you present, are difficult but solvable if a big player is willing to pitch in.

I don't like to target specific words, but the problems you specify apply to JS as much as they do to any other language.

A C/rust like language has far better CPU/memory efficiency than JS.

A batteries included language like python might even be better at network latency since it doesn't have to bundle in the code that should've been in a stdlib, not client code.

We use different languages because they are good at different things. The browser doesn't seem to respect this Philosophy :(

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