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Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

nytimes.com

261–270 of 328 posts

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just in LA, and scooters are everywhere. However, they're all parked upright, and in most cases even organized into a nice, out of the sidewalk path, line (initially I thought that Bird/Lime/etc were paying people to do this, but I saw a mix of different brands aligned as often as just one). When they first launched in LA, this wasn't the case, it was just as much of a free for all as SF. SF succumbed to regula…

Counterpoint, I live in downtown SF and walk everywhere (Lived in lower polk, work in fidi, now live in Nob Hill). Even at their peak, I never once had a scooter in my way. Characterizing the situation here, even at its worst, as a "free for all" is a gross exaggerating.

So, an important lesson I've realized from the whole scooters thing is that if you have a bunch of inconsiderate idiots in your city, regulation isn't going to fix that problem.

So I'm not surprised you have a totally different view. Your view is going to reflect the values of the people around you. You may be surrounded by polite people.

Take riding on the sidewalks. Any sensible person would understand that operating a vehicle moving 15-20mph on a 3-foot wide sidewalk, in a dense urban area with people coming into/out of buildings, delivery personnel wheeling hand trucks, small children, parents with strollers, people walking cats and dogs, etc is just dumb. Yet, I see kids in Oakland doing this daily, and even though it's codified into the Oakland Municipal Code that this is illegal (motorized vehicles on the sidewalk), people do it anyway.

I got so fed up with this, I (intentionally) veered about 6 inches left walking on the sidewalk last week, causing someone going ~15mph to get knocked off of the scooter. Other times, I just stand in the middle of the sidewalk and play chicken. I weigh 240lbs so it's usually pretty effective.

It is indeed up to the law to legislate what is and isn't allowable behavior. But at the smallest scale, it's neither possible nor desirable to get a cop standing on every block, or surveillance cameras everywhere. You just have to trust people will exercise some level of decency and concern for others, which seems notably absent from day-to-day interaction where I live. You can't change that with laws.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#262
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Bike lanes are extremely dangerous for cyclists and the current implementation of bike lanes in this country are really just big automobile lanes. It puts all the risk on the cyclist. I have had numerous friends get hit and run while riding bikes on bike lanes, most recently a friend died from it. I'll happily receive any citations for riding my bike or e-scooter on the sidewalk, and take full responsibil…

That's why you specifically need physically protected bike lanes. Painted bike lanes are nearly worthless. Nobody would accept having "painted walk lanes" instead of sidewalks, but for some reason this is considered an acceptable norm for bikes.

Are they better than nothing, which is what was there before?

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#263
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If scooters can’t operate on sidewalks then they should be banned from sidewalks. Saying they must have somewhere safe is fine, just build bike lanes.

Flipping that around, if scooters can't operate safely on the road they should be banned from the road. Which effectively bans scooters and bicycles in any place where there is no bike lane.

The core difference is it's other people that get harmed on sidewalks vs. the scooter rider on roads. I suspect most people are fine with people risking other own lives more than other people.

At the core scooters don't really change that much about transportation vs bikes or simply running. However, they can be really convenient. So, it's going to be interesting to see how things evolve.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#265
post #58

Am I the only one who wants to see more seated scooter innovation? I would much prefer riding one of these self-balancing scooters/microcycles to the standing scooters that everyone is using. 1. http://rynomotors.com (launches April 16, 2019) 2. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/newest-fat-tyre-elect... 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcZk9zn82-g

I might prefer these as well, but I think the standing ones fit more use cases than the sitting ones. For example, what if a woman was wearing a pencil skirt?

As you can see from the product in the second link, most skirts should work fine: https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB11XeAgwaTBuNjSszfq6xgfpXaD/new... (temporary CDN link may expire)

If a pencil skirt is too constricting it could be a problem, but the same can be said for most seated mobile cycle-based transportation methods.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#266
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that pretty much the whole point is to go faster than walking speed. If you can't, what's the point?

most roads are safe enough to go on or have bike lanes. i only go on sidewalks when I need to. So scooters are still worth it even if you are safe on sidewalks.

I'm not sure that's the widespread behavior though. (And I agree that partial cautious sidewalk use is fine.) A lot of users seem not to want to use roads or even non-separated bike lanes period.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#267
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it preposterous than any cyclist would want to share their very limited bike lanes with random people on rented scooters.

I find it preposterous when pedestrians expect bicycles and scooters to expose themselves to life-threatening dangers, by sharing a roadway with two-tonne motorized vehicles.

Then you should probably just walk.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't think this is a transition. What we're likely seeing is M&A people caught up in the hype and trends. In some ways, it's worth spending some amount as a hedge against something happening, but I don't believe these scooters will represent any meaningful change ... personally I think they are kind of a fad. The logistics, cost, narrow use cases of all of it just don't work out well enough. Truly - what % of…

>Truly - what % of people could actually commute using these things? It's very small. Of those, who would actually do it? In winter? Up and down hills? Are they a little bit too old for this, or maybe not so open minded? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RQrKP9a0XE Potentially: Everyone, winter to summer (look up his other videos), up and down hills (they're electric, hills don't matter), regardless of age. America is…

Macau is by far more dense, has a large petrol scooter population, and almost no e-scooters. Petrol scooters are far more flexible at this point in terms of speed, torque, gross weight carried; and announce themselves much better in the many twisty / blind streets and alleys.

It also rains a lot. Do people ride e-scooters in the rain in SF?

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#269
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Bike lanes are extremely dangerous for cyclists and the current implementation of bike lanes in this country are really just big automobile lanes. It puts all the risk on the cyclist. I have had numerous friends get hit and run while riding bikes on bike lanes, most recently a friend died from it. I'll happily receive any citations for riding my bike or e-scooter on the sidewalk, and take full responsibil…

I don't think you're making a very compelling justification for bicycling on sidewalks. Your statistic regarding UK pedestrians being killed/hit vs bicyclists being killed/hit isn't strong as it's probable that nowhere near as many bicyclists choose to ride on the sidewalk as compared to staying in bike lanes and roads. That is, if more bicyclists opted to ride on sidewalks, the incident rate would certainly increase…

In some ways civil disobedience is a form of political speech.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bike lanes aren't great, nor are they a separate space -- they're in the street.

Not proper ones. Real bike lanes in bike-able cities have a small curb separating them from the street and then another one to separate from the sidewalk.

For Bay Area HN folks: check out what San Jose has done with the bike lanes downtown recently. Separation from traffic using a combo of parked cars and barriers.
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