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Google staff walk out over women's treatment

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Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's no real process in place for situations of misconduct in the office. There shouldn't be a "process" set by Google when it comes to sexual harassment, employees should be able to sue, that's the process,sexual harassment is a crime, they can't sue because Google force them into arbitration, which should be illegal for an employer to do that to an employee IMHO. this is a denial of justice.

forced arbitration has been the bane of combatting anything legally. it basically is now used to completely remove any employee or consumer ability to sue. This is used for literally everything. Every employer does this now, every software product, every hardware. I don't understand how this is even acceptable.

Because it doesn't actually do that. Only in the u.s. do people believe that suing over anything and everything is an efficient or effective mechanism of justice

"Sue it out" is probably the least effective possible conflict resolution mechanism along almost any axis.

The underlying goal of arbitration is to ensure effective resolution of non-complex situations and reserve the courts for actually complex cases, instead of now, where they are used because people hope they can make a bunch of money.

The only thing I'm aware of is people complain of bias of arbitrators using the proxy of how often business wins relative to people in courts (with no evaluation of whether people should be winning as much as they do in court).

Otherwise I have seen nothing that suggests that arbitration is not in fact very effective and efficient at reducing the cost and time involved.

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People voluntarily entered into indentured servitude once upon a time, too.

They didn't have options - every single Google employee(past and present) has options. They selected this one, voluntarily. Indentured servitude is not a valid analogy.

Most indentured servitude in the US was a voluntary agreement [1] although all such agreements are now illegal by the 13th amendment.

Also, there exist the concept of a so-called "unconscionable contract." I'm not saying this proposition is true, but I'm submitting for evaluation: is the act of submitting to private investigation processes that may be used as evidence against you in civil or criminal courts unconscionable?

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servitude_in_the_...

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#263
post #245

This entire protest would have generally been a non-event if the company hadn't sent out a memo telling managers to accommodate people who want to participate, ensure there is no retaliation or penalty, be flexible with schedules, etc., effectively advertising the event to everyone in the process. So then it looks like employees are being unsupportive of their co-workers if they don't participate. Which sort of shuff…

One view is that management knows that and did it anyway.

Perhaps they felt it was worth letting it be a bigger event and taking a PR hit if in return what they get is that the employees feel that the company supports them.

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#264
post #179

Something Ive never understood (not in the sense of I dont agree. What I really mean is I'm uneducated on the topic and would like to find out more, but my searches returned little, since it's a pretty heated topic), is why the company should be the primary responsible entity for this. Maybe for light cases where someone just need a stern talking to, but a lot of the cases are downright criminal acts. Having a privat…

> ...why the company should be the primary responsible entity for this...Having a private entity that has a vested interest in the events seem...unwise.

All other issues aside: the company should want to make an environment where good people want to work and can work without "distractions" (using the word very broadly and generically, not dismissing people's important concerns!!!). So it's in their self interest to deal with them well.

This line of argument isn't that different from the GP's analogy to site uptime.

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#265
post #152
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the most under rated comment in this thread. Don't know what the Google management is thinking at this point in time. But I'm damn sure, unless you are making it rain hundreds of millions in dollars, and you are a part of these pre-unionizing exercises- You are very likely getting marked up as a trouble maker, and may be already a part of purge lists. This is also a small industry. You don't want your name to…

> You are very likely getting marked up as a trouble maker, and may be already a part of purge lists. This is also extremely illegal in the EU. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36242312

And of course it's practised all over. Also in Europe.

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#266
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is also a small industry. You don't want your name to smeared as a person who comes with a high trouble/contribution ratio. What you are suggesting is called "blacklisting." You may be interested to learn that in many states it is illegal behavior itself. See https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/employee-... . > Nobody wants to hire people to do their jobs, and get employees running their part ti…

Nobody ever gets interview feedbacks in this industry. What you are saying is true, but its always impossible to establish intentions. And either way you have to sue. All the best ever getting a job if you are known to do legal fights against prospective employers. >>Union organizing is not a "part time political project," it is a legally protected right. One believes in these things only until they become managers t…

> And every one aspires to be one in this industry.

This is so far from the truth that I don't know how to make sense of your claim. Either you are living in a bubble or in a place which provides no career path to engineers (thus forcing them to want to be managers) or you are interpreting the data you are faced with incorrectly.

There are so many people in this industry who never want to be a manager that this claim of yours is frankly absurd!

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#268
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're probably more correct, I was trying to empathize with OP but I do agree I don't think the police are the right party for this mediation.

What if we created a new government organization to fill where we find that the police is not the right party to address illegal behavior. We could call them peace officer which mediate in disputes with power to fire and discipline people with the exact same requirement and behavior that we want out of the perfect HR department. This way we would raise the standard to be equal for all people that are employed regardl…

Civil court?

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A good point, but irreconciable with pay gap data > For people who are tired of rehashing the same old arguments with data and answers that are out there for anyone serious to find... It's funny that you say that since there is no data supporting the pay gap. In fact there are people posting data in this thread contradicting the pay gap. If you say data is available to support your argument, you should link to it.

> It's funny that you say that I think you misunderstood my point in the "answers that are out there for anyone serious to find" - I'm saying it's worth restating your arguments even if you think people "should" know the "obvious" and "proven". Nothing in that position makes it ironic that I also stated my understanding of things (Be that understanding right or wrong). > If you say data is available to support your a…

Heck, I’m at 0 HN points anyway: A male/female difference of 5% on basic criteria seems nothing, especially considering that women are nonstop drama at work when all is good, and are a legally explosive cocktail for up to 38 years if I believe the Kavanaugh accusation. I would never work with a woman anymore, plus the company loses 50% efficiency by hiring them, and then needs to hire an HR department and legal counsel. A company with women is a severely badly managed company.
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