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Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

carlosrdrz.es

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Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#261

Post by tomc1985 »

oblio wrote: post #230
tomc1985 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is weird to hear developers say this. The tooling around your app is essential to understanding how it runs, why would someone not know this stuff?

Because they don't care, what they're doing is good enough and at the end of the day they want to go home and enjoy what they like together with the loved ones. Shocking, truly :p I know this is a dirty thought, here on Hacker News.

The people that built all this tech that pays your bills were the kind that would think about the sorts of things I bring up. I don't see that in the latest gen of developers.

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#262

Post by hardwaresofton »

talkingquickly wrote: post #239
hardwaresofton wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tl;dr - Rook is the way to go, with automatic backups set up -- using rook means your cluster resources are ceph-managed, you basically have a mini EBS -- Ceph does replication across machines for you in the background, and all you have to do is write out snapshots of the volume contents from time to time just in case you get spectacularly unlucky and X nodes fail all at once, in just the right order to make you lose…

This is an amazing response, thank you!

Absolutely no problem -- hope you found some of it useful!

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#263

Post by oblio »

tomc1985 wrote: post #261
oblio wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they don't care, what they're doing is good enough and at the end of the day they want to go home and enjoy what they like together with the loved ones. Shocking, truly :p I know this is a dirty thought, here on Hacker News.

The people that built all this tech that pays your bills were the kind that would think about the sorts of things I bring up. I don't see that in the latest gen of developers.

You're not looking hard enough. Every generation has them, you're just starting to develop "get off my lawn syndrome". If your username is any indication of your age, it's a bit early for that :D

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#264

Post by wpietri »

ams6110 wrote: post #256
weberc2 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. I set one up from scratch on a cluster of Raspberry Pis and I don't know shit about Packer, Ansible, SystemD, and probably a bunch of things I'm only nominally familiar with. And that was a bare metal cluster, and it was hard; however, I don't think it was hard for lack of sysadmin knowledge, it was hard because I was learning K8s, I had to learn about ingres and MetalLB, K8s requires you to modify cgroup…

If you, or somebody available to you, doesn't know standard sysadmin things, you shouldn't be deploying a production system. When things inevitably do go wrong, you'll need that sysadmin knowledge to get things sorted out.

But here we're talking about personal projects. That's how a lot of people learn exactly what production systems take.

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#265

Post by dsnuh »

whydoineedthis wrote: post #248
dsnuh wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An on-prem "production ready" k8s cluster in under a day? What kind of businesses are you setting this up for? Are these all greenfield projects? I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe that. We run on-prem k8s, on bare metal and VMs. Integration with existing storage (we use NetApp Solidfire and NFS), load balancers, firewalls, backup strategy, DR, etc. takes weeks, if not months of work. But we may disagree on wha…

Whom said anything about on-prem? on-prem anything takes weeks and has nothing to do with kubernetes. AWS, production ready. I could probably do google too, but it would take a couple weeks to write the automation first. Also, if your on-prem system is already well organized, the kubernetes portion can also be done 1-2 days. If it takes you weeks to attach storage, load balancers, and configure your firewalls, none o…

My apologies is I misread what you said, it looked like your reply was to "anyone running their own cluster is insane" in the previous comment. And as I said, to me that means "on their own bare metal servers".

I'm talking about getting a Kubernetes cluster (of any kind really, but specifically on-prem) _integrated_ and doing useful things with existing legacy workflows inside your company using an existing infrastructure is a larger task than I see it made out to be.

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#266

Post by Annatar »

yebyen wrote: post #238
Annatar wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're here to avoid pre-existing agendas, then Docker and Kubernetes promotional articles tick every box on the "tedious" agenda. The best part is, the article is about "no thanks" to Kubernetes, which I wholeheartedly agree with and have stuck to commenting relevantly to the topic, backed up by plenty of citations.

I mentioned our talk to my coworker, his immediate response was "does he work for Oracle?" I'm only half seriously asking but, do you? (Given the certifications you mentioned, I think that even if you don't, there is a vague subjective case that you do...)

I am in no way affiliated with either Oracle or Joyent. I have never worked for or at either of those companies.

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#267

Post by Annatar »

yebyen wrote: post #258
dang wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment breaks the site guidelines. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow the rules when posting here.

I apologise, I thought that was a fair question and civil... The missing context from another comment was: > ... amount of institutional inertia I've come up against while trying to get any part of our Development or Production stack shifted over to Kubernetes, which I consider myself fairly expert in, I think you'd understand that "containers on Solaris" is not going to go over any better for me than containers on G…

You didn't accuse me of working for Oracle; your coworker implied it, but it also shows how little she or he is versed in the subject matter: the very reason top Solaris kernel engineers work at Joyent is that they vehemently oppose the Oracle corporation; it's that same reason why OpenSolaris was forked into illumos, from which SmartOS is built. Please let your coworker know my answer.

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#268

Post by Annatar »

justinsaccount wrote: post #250
dang wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personal attacks will get you banned here. Please make your points without stooping to that in the future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I suppose my comment appears harsh if you haven't seen month after month of his "smartos solves every problem and linux users are too stupid to know how to computer properly" type comments. read the guys bio: > There exist no words in any of the languages I speak which can express my hate of GNU and GNU/Linux. > I was raised on IRIX, HP-UX and Solaris. Huge illumos / SmartOS fan and FreeBSD sympathizer. It's hard not…

"There exist no words in any of the languages I speak which can express my hate of GNU and GNU/Linux."

And I stand by that statement: if I didn't, it wouldn't be on my biography. I think it's fair and honest disclosure, rather than philosophy and playing with words. I mean what I say and I say what I mean.

Still, ad hominem attacks on someone with an opposing view do little to further your argument; at best, it comes across as nothing but opinion.

For my part, I provided citations to make my point. I regret that you didn't seem to read through them before answering.

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#269

Post by tiangolo »

I don't get why Docker Swarm mode is so underrated. Docker Compose is excellent for local development, and Docker Swarm mode uses the same file and is almost the same thing. Some minor additions in extra docker-compose files and it's ready for production in a cluster. For the same $5 bucks in a full Linux VPS with Linode or DigitalOcean (or even the free tier in Google Cloud) you can get a full cluster, starting with a single node, including automatic HTTPS certificates, etc. Here's my quick guide, with a Linux from scratch to a prod server in about 20 min. Including full-stack app: https://github.com/tiangolo/full-stack/blob/master/docker-sw...

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#270

Post by Draiken »

tomjen3 wrote: post #229
Draiken wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is proving my point. They're basically the same, but one is completely dynamic and the other will have to be changed as soon as anything changes. We've been using Kubernetes in production for almost two years now and I have yet to face a big API change that breaks everything. The core APIs are stable. There's a lot of new stuff added, but nothing that breaks backwards compatibility. As you just said, if…

How do you configure it with a master postgress db that is persistent over reboots, hooked up to two hot slaves? With ability to do of site backup? All deployments I have seen so far have been immutable infi scale webapps. That is easy.

That's true. Stateless apps are a lot easier. I have myself had to put a stateful service in K8s even before they had StatefulSets and it wasn't a walk in the park.

However doing what you described is hard... anywhere.

Even if you do it all by hand it's going to be hard and most likely brittle. It might take a bit more time/effort to do that on Kubernetes but I would say you would end up being a better solution that can actually sustain change.

As stated before by many, Kubernetes is not a magic wand. But it does force you to build things in a way that can sustain change without a big overhead.

We all know that different tools have different purposes and I'm not advocating it's perfect by any means. All I'm trying to say is that this idea - that a lot of people have - that Kubernetes is 10x more complex than doing X by hand is an illusion.

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