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Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

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Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#261

Post by TulliusCicero »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #215
TulliusCicero wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> consider that schools, hospitals, public transit etc. are also resting. Pretty sure two out of three of those aren't really resting. You think hospitals stop working or trains stop running? > it makes sense to have a common day of rest Eh, nah. I'm mostly a social democrat, and I'd be all for better worker protections in general in the US, but I haven't heard any socialists or labor advocates pushing for "oh yeah,…

> You think hospitals stop working Here in Norway that is exactly what happens. Those who do not need round the clock treatment or monitoring go home for the weekend and the hospital runs with a very much reduced staff. I know this from painful first hand experience over the last three years and it works very well.

> I know this from painful first hand experience over the last three years and it works very well.

??

It's painful but works very well?

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#262

Post by TulliusCicero »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #193
TulliusCicero wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> consider that schools, hospitals, public transit etc. are also resting. Pretty sure two out of three of those aren't really resting. You think hospitals stop working or trains stop running? > it makes sense to have a common day of rest Eh, nah. I'm mostly a social democrat, and I'd be all for better worker protections in general in the US, but I haven't heard any socialists or labor advocates pushing for "oh yeah,…

"If nothing else, in the US this would be seen as a pretty gross abrogation of separation of church and state to make it Sunday" No. It's as cultural as it is religious, and there are 0 'Social Democrats' against the notion of Sundays off on religious grounds. "People should absolutely have time off, but I think being more flexible is generally preferable." And no, there is generally no movement for this nor will the…

> No. It's as cultural as it is religious, and there are 0 'Social Democrats' against the notion of Sundays off on religious grounds.

Totally, utterly wrong. If you tried to mandate Sundays off anywhere in the US, the entirety of the left would oppose it. If you don't realize this, you may not know much about US politics. The left there is very concerned about any signs of state-sponsored religious favoritism, and this would very obviously qualify.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#263

Post by TulliusCicero »

blattimwind wrote: post #142
detaro wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be curious if and how those numbers change when it is instead "companies should be able to decide themselves if they are open on Sundays". Anecdotally, that question complicates it for quite a few people, despite probably being the fairer change.

It's of course great when people work for you on your day off. Unsurprising, though markedly short-sighted.

If you're working weekends and your days off are on weekdays, this principle still holds true: stores are still available for you. So I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#264

Post by TulliusCicero »

blattimwind wrote: post #141
noja wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you German? If not, what do the Germans think of this?

> If not, what do the Germans think of this? I am a certified German and most people very much enjoy the six day week (de-facto five day week if you're in an office or unionized), though some people inexplicably want to do "sunday shopping". Sunday having a protected status is actually part of the Grundgesetz (~constitution).

I mean, I just posted a poll that says a majority would prefer businesses get to decide, so perhaps not as much agreement with you as you think?

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#265

Post by firic »

Gracana wrote: post #242
coaxial wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My oven has a Shabbat mode: when you activate this mode, touching the controls doesn't make any sound anymore, opening the oven door doesn't trigger the light, and when touching a button the effect is delayed by a few seconds so you're not technically getting any result from touching the button while still getting the effect from touching the button.

I always find these things kind of funny. How important are these rules if god is so easily tricked?

God is not tricked. There is no restriction against cooking on Shabbat. There are restrictions against eg. making a fire and building. If you can somehow cook without doing any of those things, then there is nothing wrong with it.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#266

Post by leyth »

icelancer wrote: post #199
leyth wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve heard about converting to Judaism. If it is an ethnicity how can that be possible?

Uh. It's both, man. EDIT: Downvotes? For stating a fact about Jewish ethnicity and religion? OK, I guess.

I was down-voted until I’ve lost all karma points! I wonder what harm or disconvert I may have caused by asking a simple question about a users comments.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#267

Post by firic »

mac01021 wrote: post #102
gavman wrote: post #35

As an Orthodox Jew who observes the Sabbath every week, while sometimes finishing up work and preparations beforehand can be stressful at times, there's no feeling like turning off all phones/laptops/etc Friday evening and leaving it all behind. There's a supreme serenity that comes with the knowledge of "I can't do anything about it, so there's no point in worrying". As soon as Sabbath starts I'm totally focused on…

Since I'm mostly ignorant of such practices, what _can_ one do on the sabbath? I assume it's not the case that your entire day is consumed by worship/ceremony/Judaism? Do you spend any time pursuing hobbies? Are there gray areas, where it is open to interpretation whether or not an activity constitutes work? Perhaps you unplug completely and do no computing or telecommunication for the entire sabbath, but is that uni…

You asked this question when it was shabbat for most people but shabbat recently ended for me.

There are many things you can do on Shabbat. You can go on a walk, have a family meal, play board games (I only play board games on Shabbat), take a nap, read a book, etc. There are some gray areas, such as if you can carry something outside. Most people figured out a way to do it. No computing and telecommunication is universal with exception for life critical activities like with doctors and fire fighters.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#268

Post by rhapsodic »

bambataa wrote: post #257
rhapsodic wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cool, how can I afford to buy a house in an area of roughly my choice and not work horrible hours? Oh wait I can’t do both. And you’d probably say that’s my choice to forgo living in a nice house in a nice area. Uh, no, I would say that I really, truly, seriously, do not care what you choose to do with the 24 hours in each of the days of your life. So please, don't try to tell me what I should or should not do with…

My point is that, whether you want it or not, the choices we each make have impacts of varying directness on what choices other people can make. Whether you choose to acknowledge them doesn’t change the effect they have.

> My point is that, whether you want it or not, the choices we each make have impacts of varying directness on what choices other people can make. Whether you choose to acknowledge them doesn’t change the effect they have.

You also seem to imply that you're entitled to afford the kind of house you want in the area you want, and that should impose some obligation on me to modify my behavior so you won't have to work as hard or as long to get what you want out of life.

The person I originally responded actually used the phrase "formal societal taboo." This is the secular version of religious busybodies wagging their fingers at other people who aren't behaving in a manner that suits them.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#269

Post by citrablue »

saalweachter wrote: post #178
ChristianBundy wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to play devil's advocate, why shouldn't the decision be up to the community that provides land and infrastructure to the business on the terms of following local regulations? I'm not sure it's so cut and dry to assume that the individualist "free" "market" approach is always optimal. What are we optimizing for? If we're optimizing for freedom, freedom for who to do what ? Freedom from what ?

Ultimately it is up to government to set the rules by which businesses operate, because market forces (and shitty business owners) tend to maximize profit at the expense of everything else. Government dictating certain bounds means that businesses which want to do things that don’t maximize short-term profit - like paying employees a living wage, not dump pollutants into rivers, or manufacturing non-contaminated food…

I'll advance a more American/Individualist comment for perspective.

Government should be limited in what it can control. Let the people and social norms make the decisions. The problems with government are worse than those of the free market in the long run, because they create friction and power imbalance between what people want and what another entity tells them is OK.

If your core value is the Government is too strong a force to be allowed to do much anything, then this makes sense. (Personally, it makes some sense to me -- limit the power of the gov't then the worst thing a Trump administration can do is deadlock. Imagine if he had more power?)

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#270

Post by citrablue »

tspike wrote: post #148
munk-a wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very strongly object to this approach... but I don't disagree with the intent. In the modern world people tend to have absolutely terrible work/life balance, we need to help fix that and it will take a really strong effort. In japan there are already programs and incentives setup to help people avoid working themselves to death but in America there's this stupid romance surrounding the idea of working over time and…

It's kind of the same thing, it's just the terminology that changes. What is "sacred" if not something to be respected. I am not religious, but I consider my disconnect time sacred.

Sacred usually means something that is above questioning. If that's the common definition, there's not a lot of value in that assignment.
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