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Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

thehill.com

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Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#261

Post by tptacek »

patrickg_zill wrote: post #252
tptacek wrote: post #146

Having read the article but not knowing anything about the posts themselves, I think most of this thread misses the point. Clearly Microsoft knew it was hosting Gab and what Gab was. There's a troll argument that suggests Gab is just "free speech twitter", but of course that's not the case: I've been screenshotting the front page for months, from a random anonymous account, and every time I've done it the front page…

The original story, is apparently not available at this link, but the footer, also written by Andrew Torba, owner of Gab.ai , is available: https://medium.com/@Torbahax/this-is-a-joke-and-it-is-fake-n... partial quote: " Gab is absolutely not a “white nationalist social media platform.” We are a free speech social media platform. We welcome everyone and have since the day we launched. My co-founder Ekrem is a Muslim…

That's an interesting thing for him to say, because Gab is absolutely and obviously a white nationalist social media platform.

Want another example? Arguing with Ken White (Popehat) on Twitter, the official Gab account RT'd a white nationalist mocking Ken for having adopted Asian children.

https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1026849669425520640

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#262

Post by theclaw »

CM30 wrote: post #86

This sort of thing illustrates the biggest issue with web hosting, domain registrars and the internet's infrastructure in general; everything is privately owned by companies who get unlimited rights to decide who and what they want to host. The solution is to require all hosting and domain companies to act as utilities, and require neutrality in regards to any content that's legal. They're not private forums or homes…

The phone company would be a better analogy, and they absolutely can cut off your service if you’re being a nuisance. The first ammendment says your government won’t pass laws against you saying stuff, it stops you from going to jail for the things you say, and it’s there to protect the people’s right to criticise the government.

It is not there to force companies to serve you if they don’t want to.

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#263

Post by hellbanner »

lylecubed wrote: post #123
coldtea wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a valid argument though? Of course things should be judged on a case by case basis, and not on dogmatic one size fits all rules. Even courts take context into account for the same action (e.g. whether a murder was in cold blood or premeditated, whether someone stole because they were hungry or just greedy, etc). And, yes, "there is a time and place for stealing someone’s wallet", as well.

But it's equally illegal to kill anybody based on race, class, political belief or religious belief.

Tell that to the soldiers spreading democracy.

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#264

Post by mikec3010 »

ezoe wrote: post #195
tinalumfoil wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are better off hearing a bad idea and hearing it refuted then never hearing a bad idea. You could say, "well then detractors of the idea will have to keep refuting it" and you'd be right. That's how public forums work, and I hope you don't take everything your parent's believed for granted just because their detractors have already been "refuted".

As much as I hate censorship, There always a bunch of idiots who believes the bad ideas. Those neo-nazis are the least evil compared to the alternative medicines. Even if you don't believe your parents, you still got no vaccine, and other crazy medical treatments even the comic books can't imagine.

Isn't this very similar to what Tipper Gore's group tried in the 80s to censor rap and "hard rock" artists ?

"Oh! We need to block this harmful speech. Think of the children! "

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#265

Post by colllectorof »

tptacek wrote: post #146

Having read the article but not knowing anything about the posts themselves, I think most of this thread misses the point. Clearly Microsoft knew it was hosting Gab and what Gab was. There's a troll argument that suggests Gab is just "free speech twitter", but of course that's not the case: I've been screenshotting the front page for months, from a random anonymous account, and every time I've done it the front page…

If there is a large enough group of people that's effectively banned from mainstream social media, it's entirely natural that they will be over-represented within the largest platform that doesn't ban them. This doesn't mean the platform in question is designed specifically to cater to those groups.

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#266

Post by koube »

koube wrote: post #95
lylecubed wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A common argument in philosophy is that bad ideas should occur in the open - where everyone may ridicule them. Not to get too far off topic, but is this actually true in practice in the real world? Scientific studies have shown that the idea that gets repeated the most often is the idea that "wins". A bad idea gets repeated and spread every time it gets criticized. If the idea proves more "credible" than the critic…

This called the Rebound effect[0]. There is a Debunking Handbook[1] for dealing with this phenomenon. There is also the idea that a lie travels around the globe while the truth is putting on its shoes, which spurred /r/AskHistorians to ban holocaust denial[2]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebound_effect [1] https://www.skepticalscience.com/docs/Debunking_Handbook.pdf [2] https://slate.com/technology/2018/07/the-…

Apologies for the brain fart, it's not the rebound effect, it's the backfire effect[0]. I can't edit my post anymore.

[0] https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Backfire_effect

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#267

Post by colllectorof »

tptacek wrote: post #261
patrickg_zill wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original story, is apparently not available at this link, but the footer, also written by Andrew Torba, owner of Gab.ai , is available: https://medium.com/@Torbahax/this-is-a-joke-and-it-is-fake-n... partial quote: " Gab is absolutely not a “white nationalist social media platform.” We are a free speech social media platform. We welcome everyone and have since the day we launched. My co-founder Ekrem is a Muslim…

That's an interesting thing for him to say, because Gab is absolutely and obviously a white nationalist social media platform. Want another example? Arguing with Ken White (Popehat) on Twitter, the official Gab account RT'd a white nationalist mocking Ken for having adopted Asian children. https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1026849669425520640

Are there known instances of Gab removing left-leaning content, or content speaking against white nationalists? That is the only relevant metric here. Tweets from their official account have nothing to do with it.

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#268

Post by Scooty »

samlevine wrote: post #176

Threats of violence already violate Gab's ToS: "Users are prohibited from calling for the acts of violence against others, promoting or engaging in self-harm, and/or acts of cruelty, threatening language or behaviour that clearly, directly and incontrovertibly infringes on the safety of another user or individual(s)." https://gab.ai/about/guidelines

I wonder what this says about Gab's reaction.

Why would they give Little the option to delete his posts instead of banning him and removing the posts themselves? If I was in their position, it wouldn't even be a question of free speech considering he was breaching the ToS.

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#269

Post by [deleted] »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #223
drb91 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But when you have the whole internet as your audience, no matter how many times you are refuted, you can say it again and a whole group of people will be hearing it for the first time. Why is that a problem? You can't force people to believe in reality. Might as well have this process happen in the open to actually provide a disincentive to believing conspiracy theories/propaganda/ads/fake news/whatever. Hell, I'll…

"Why is that a problem? " Ask the parents of children murdered at Sandy Hook.

[deleted]
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