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European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

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Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#261

Post by mustacheemperor »

cageface wrote: post #231
vivan wrote: post #2

Can anyone concisely explain what this fine is for, and also why the same wouldn't apply to Apple for iOS? It seems to be a rehash of the issue that Microsoft faced when it only gave you Internet Explorer on install. But iOS comes with only Safari on install, and forces you to use Apple's various apps - how is this any different?

Apple defenders will dismiss market share when comparing Android and iOS and claim that share of profits is all that counts. But they're happy to use market share to justify sanctions against Google. You can't have it both ways folks. The fact is that Apple controls enough of the users that everybody wants that they have at least as much influence as Google does in mobile. That they've chosen to protect their fat pro…

Looking at the comment below enumerating the reasons for the ruling, I don't see any overlap between what Google is being fined for and Apple's business practices. Apple isn't forcing 3rd party OEMs to install Safari on their hardware in order to run Apple apps because Apple makes all their own hardware. iOS is not an open source OS meant to be available to third parties, and Apple doesn't have a search engine to pay carriers to mandate.

>requiring mobile manufacturers to pre-install Google Search and Google Chrome browser and requiring them to set Google Search as default search service on their devices, as a condition to license certain Google proprietary apps;

>preventing manufacturers from selling smart mobile devices running on competing operating systems based on the Android open source code;

>giving financial incentives to manufacturers and mobile network operators on condition that they exclusively pre-install Google Search on their devices.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#262

Post by Aissen »

therealmarv wrote: post #96

History is repeating itself. Only difference is that Google search and Chrome browser is not as bad as MSN and IE in former times. Why Google did not looked on how MS handled that issue when you become the market leader?

Oh, they did learn from MS. We've seen execs kill email threads to make sure position abuse wasn't apparent for future investigations:

https://www.theverge.com/2011/05/12/google-android-skyhook-l...

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#263

Post by renchap »

menegattig wrote: post #244

IMHO, antitrust fines/penalties should change from amount of money to some other type of penalty, like temporary market exclusion/block or something, otherwise companies like Google and others can simply use its cash (that's was also made due to the unfair advantage), pay the fine and move on to the next market dominance. They will always have cash to pay, even if the fines are higher and higher. They kind of expect…

This is the initial fine. Now they have 90 days to comply, otherwise they will get penalties (up to 5% worldwide turnover of Alphabet) until they do. From the link:

> Google must now bring the conduct effectively to an end within 90 days or face penalty payments of up to 5% of the average daily worldwide turnover of Alphabet, Google's parent company.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#264

Post by sqdbps »

Right, so Google develops Android at great expense, they release it as an open source project and now they’re supposed to make even less money from it?

If you think you see similarities between this fine and the microsoft case you should also consider the differences.

For all intents and purposes the market is split 50/50 between Android and iOS, and the fact that Android can be competitive with iOS is largely due to Google’s conditions, as by ensuring quality and consistency they spared Android from the fate of the desktop linux and turned it into a mass market product, not to mention the whole free and open source thing, which is a big deal that is seemingly being brushed aside (what about all the forks?!).

In any other context finnig an open source project for antitrust violations is absurd.

They keep hitting Google with these record fines as there is no political cost for hammering Google in the EU it’s all profit, they get fawning headlines from an approving press and quench the bloodthirst of the politician there who don’t even try to hide their distaste for US tech firms and Google in particular (try and look up their quotes), they can talk up the benefits of free trade all they want and complain about this tariff or that but there is no denying that much of what the EU does is try and hamstring US tech companies.

P.S.

A recent indicator as to the political nature of this action, the fine announcement was delayed until after Trump's visit to europe: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-google-antitrust/eu-go...

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#265

Post by VikingCoder »

hrktb wrote: post #33
vivan wrote: post #2

Can anyone concisely explain what this fine is for, and also why the same wouldn't apply to Apple for iOS? It seems to be a rehash of the issue that Microsoft faced when it only gave you Internet Explorer on install. But iOS comes with only Safari on install, and forces you to use Apple's various apps - how is this any different?

A better source: > The European Commission has accused Google of abusing its Android market dominance by bundling its search engine and Chrome apps into the operating system. Google has also allegedly blocked phone makers from creating devices that run forked versions of Android. https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/18/17580694/google-android-e... > How is it any different Apple doesn’t have a dominent search engine to pu…

Oh, Apple is a brutal dictatorship that doesn't share anything? That's fine.

Oh, Google, you're willing to share almost everything with anyone for free, but you want to put terms on that? Hey, here's a giant fine.

I just don't understand the logic of this at all.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#267

Post by SparklingCotton »

repolfx wrote: post #74
littlecranky67 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A monopoly is not defined by the possiblity that there are other products available for purchase on the market, but rather how many products have been purchased and are in use. Using your reasoning, Microsoft could never have had a monopoly on Windows because you always could have bought a Mac.

That latter definition is in fact a reasonable counter-argument to Windows being a monopoly (people did buy Macs), and that's why Microsoft got in trouble for the deals they cut to try and crush Netscape, not for making a more popular OS than Apple did. You can't define a monopoly as "your competitors aren't popular" because otherwise it'd be illegal to invent new product categories, as at the start you'd be the only…

Monopolies are not illegal, so your argument is irrelevant.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#268

Post by cageface »

mustacheemperor wrote: post #261
cageface wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple defenders will dismiss market share when comparing Android and iOS and claim that share of profits is all that counts. But they're happy to use market share to justify sanctions against Google. You can't have it both ways folks. The fact is that Apple controls enough of the users that everybody wants that they have at least as much influence as Google does in mobile. That they've chosen to protect their fat pro…

Looking at the comment below enumerating the reasons for the ruling, I don't see any overlap between what Google is being fined for and Apple's business practices. Apple isn't forcing 3rd party OEMs to install Safari on their hardware in order to run Apple apps because Apple makes all their own hardware. iOS is not an open source OS meant to be available to third parties, and Apple doesn't have a search engine to pay…

You missed my point. Effectively there is more than one kind of monopoly and Apple has just as much control over the mobile space as Google does and abuses it in their own way by pushing their browser, disallowing third party app stores and alternative default mail, maps, etc. Expect to see more of this as Apple starts to rely more and more on services revenue.

Apple currently pulls in an astonishing 87% of mobile profits. Why on earth should they be excluded from anti-trust scrutiny?

https://www.investors.com/news/technology/click/apple-rakes-...

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#269

Post by Tepix »

VikingCoder wrote: post #265
hrktb wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better source: > The European Commission has accused Google of abusing its Android market dominance by bundling its search engine and Chrome apps into the operating system. Google has also allegedly blocked phone makers from creating devices that run forked versions of Android. https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/18/17580694/google-android-e... > How is it any different Apple doesn’t have a dominent search engine to pu…

Oh, Apple is a brutal dictatorship that doesn't share anything? That's fine. Oh, Google, you're willing to share almost everything with anyone for free, but you want to put terms on that? Hey, here's a giant fine. I just don't understand the logic of this at all.

It's mostly about having a 80% market share.
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