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Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

cs.cmu.edu

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Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#261

Post by gowld »

kendallpark wrote: post #70

If you are an undergraduate in computer science these days, it is very hard to get into advanced AI/ML classes, which are typically reserved for graduate students. Back before the ML goldrush, a strong CS undergrad interested in AI could elect to take advanced coursework beyond the introductory AI class. Nowadays, good luck getting off the waitlist! Having an official "AI major" does at least tell students, "Hey, we…

The problem with CS education in general is that it's very hard to get teachers, since anyone who can teach CS could earn 2-100x the income in industry.

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#262

Post by gowld »

QML wrote: post #78
kendallpark wrote: post #70

If you are an undergraduate in computer science these days, it is very hard to get into advanced AI/ML classes, which are typically reserved for graduate students. Back before the ML goldrush, a strong CS undergrad interested in AI could elect to take advanced coursework beyond the introductory AI class. Nowadays, good luck getting off the waitlist! Having an official "AI major" does at least tell students, "Hey, we…

While there may be a lot of demand for AI/ML, I’m concerned to whether there are enough students with the proper foundations in math and stats to do well. New classes such as Data Science seem to just instruct students how to use algorithms and not why.

Are you talking about undergraduate courses, or non-accredited certificate courses? We've had stuff like A+ / Cisco / Java certifications for decades. They fill an important niche, but they aren't how industry leaders are trained.

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#263

Post by gowld »

greggarious wrote: post #200
kendallpark wrote: post #70

If you are an undergraduate in computer science these days, it is very hard to get into advanced AI/ML classes, which are typically reserved for graduate students. Back before the ML goldrush, a strong CS undergrad interested in AI could elect to take advanced coursework beyond the introductory AI class. Nowadays, good luck getting off the waitlist! Having an official "AI major" does at least tell students, "Hey, we…

Couldn't the same be accomplished with a minor or concentration as is common in many universities? (Registering formally for a minor gives you preference) I don't really have an issue with this degree, but I think it's mostly a marketing ploy to have a "major in AI" versus "AI concentration" or "AI minor" (set of electives alongside the normal CS degree)

What's the "ploy"? It's got about 4-6 more on-focus classes than a traditional "minor"

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#264

Post by copperx »

esahione wrote: post #239
drngdds wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, from someone who hasn't had to do it: how is it possible to do productively study for 16 hours a day? Controlled substances? I don't last that long even on occasion, much less regularly.

Everyone takes Adderall. Not just that, but a lot of the time is spent explaining things to your classmates, getting answers to match our expectations, etc. So it's not like 16 hours of reading and trying to understand the material, more like 16 hours of school work.

I've always wondered: is the information retained successfully in the long term even if acquired using Adderall?

I have taken Adderall for a few months, and I developed serious memory gaps. I have little recollection of several events during that time.

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#265

Post by learc83 »

dgacmu wrote: post #149
learc83 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked at your description, and compared the requirements myself. I'm even more convinced this is for publicity (or other political reasons). There's nothing there that couldn't have been done by very slightly altering the CS requirements. If CMU had done that instead, students would have the ability to take more AI classes, but they wouldn't be at a disadvantage if they decide (or need) to work in another field of…

As a CMU professor, in case it wasn't clear: We, in general, felt fairly strongly that we did not want to radically alter the meaning of a CMU CS degree, i.e., that our B.S. in C.S. students do come out with the degree having hit some depth in systems, in PL, in algo and theory. We also felt fairly strongly that supporting students who wanted something different from their education, which still falls under the broad…

>we did not want to radically alter the meaning of a CMU CS degree

That's just it. No radical alteration was required. You're already saying that: "AI majors will receive the same solid grounding in computer science and math courses as other computer science students." But if CMU had added a new concentration or specialization to the existing major this story wouldn't be on the front page of HN.

There is no way that at some point in the discussion "This will be a big publicity win for us" wasn't brought up by someone.

In general I think it's bad advice for undergrads to pursue hyper specialized degrees. I think it's a bad idea when engineering schools do it with things like robotics engineering, and I think it's a bad idea when CS departments do it with AI. Specialization is what grad school is for--this isn't the UK. I also think that schools that offer these degrees are doing a disservice to their students.

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#266

Post by gowld »

vkjv wrote: post #102
3pt14159 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always this way when new fields start. Give it time. AI leans harder on areas of knowledge that traditional CS treats as periphery like philosophy and linguistics. In a couple decades the field could be as separate from CS as EE is.

I agree, but I think this also supports the parent argument. CS and EE are not very different at the undergraduate level.

That's right, and that's harmful to people who want to "higher up the stack" than EE. This new major helps address that problem.

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#267

Post by gowld »

triska wrote: post #146

Personally, I find the lack of logic programming, and logic in general, a rather notable property of the outlined curriculum. In fact, "logic" is nowhere explicitly mentioned in the course titles. Neither are "formal" and "method". For comparison, at the department of AI in Edinburgh, Prolog was very important and even actively developed to such an extent that current Prolog systems are still hugely influenced by "Ed…

Prolog, constraint solving and formal methods are pre-AI forms of AI.

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#268

Post by matthewbauer »

asafira wrote: post #241
jknoepfler wrote: post #164

I really do not like this move. AI and Machine Learning require graduate-level mathematical and computational skills. I don't think it's productive to pretend that we can train someone to be even remotely useful in these fields in four years of an undergraduate education. It sounds like an attempt to get around the fundamentals of csci to "skip to the interesting bits," which will produce graduates with a cursory kno…

Would you consider an undergraduate degree in Physics the same as a graduate degree in physics? No, I would not expect a person with an undergrad degree in physics to have nearly the same capabilities and understanding of a PhD holder in general. Similarly, it would be silly to assume the alums from this program are going to be considered to be of the same caliber. Instead, they will fill roles in which having a rich…

Isn’t most AI work in research though? I think the problem most are having with this is we generally consider AI to be more prestigious than something like data science (which seems like it would be a better name for a degree in its own right).

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#269

Post by gowld »

a-dub wrote: post #125

I think you can make this degree out of the standard electives offered in any good CS program, although the courses at CMU are more likely to be great rather than just good. To me it was just "the cool CS electives that you get to do if you get all the math, stats and signal processing down pat." Sad news is that the fields that make up these interesting classes are things that people do PhDs in, so unless you get a…

The help button for the Google Cloud for Education Administrators Console is made by PhDs.

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#270

Post by learc83 »

matthewbauer wrote: post #260
habosa wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a lie that I hear a lot from AI/ML experts. To me it reeks of gatekeeping. Yes the foundations of the field and many of the breakthroughs require this knowledge, but one can be a very effective practicioner of AI/ML techniques with a few years of undergraduate level instruction. And given how many industries are kicking the tires of AI/ML, we're going to need hordes of practicioners.

I don’t think it is actually gatekeeping because no one is saying that you CAN’T do AI/ML with this degree just that there is going to be a tradeoff in any curriculum focusing on a subset of CS. A consequence of this degree is that it makes CS degrees worth less. Because AI/ML is by definition a subset of CS, this degree implies that you have CS + more. It doesn’t fairly show that there is a tradeoff in a specialized…

That's exactly the opposite of what happens to most graduates with specialized degrees.

They end up having to explain their degrees, which is generally not a good thing. It happens all the time with engineering. In the job market a degree in mechanical engineering is in general worth more than one in robotics.

You also run the risk of graduating into another AI winter, or just deciding you hate AI, and then you really have to try hard to explain that your degree is really just a CS degree.

Imagine graduating now with an undergrad in big data--that sounded like a good idea 5 years ago.

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