Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 385 posts

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#261

Post by kijin »

frockington wrote: post #216
padthai wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure if losing Facebook access counts as losing any kind of "technology". They cannot block the use of their FOSS code in Europe, isn't? I am not sure the impact of closing their offices in Europe, though I am sure their the most interesting work is done in USA.

I agree that Facebook isn't really "technology" and that losing it would probably be a net positive. I am worried that Europe will set a precedent that will discourage internet technologies from doing business in Europe disconnecting them from the world.

If American tech companies ever pull out of Europe, other startups will quickly fill the void. After all, it's not like the technology isn't available in Europe. Somebody just needs to build a product using it.

That would be great for diversity, not to mention provide a fertile playground for much-needed alternatives. Too bad it probably won't happen.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#262

Post by bulatb »

cabaalis wrote: post #165
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their choices are to either be GDPR-complient, or to completely bar all EU users from accessing Facebook. They cannot use tracking opt-in as a requirement for access.

American here; I just don't quite understand the premise. "Here is what you are giving us, and here is what you're getting in return" seems perfectly legit to me. If this interpretation of the law is correct, then the government is essentially saying the "in return" portion has to be eliminated. Which seems to be against the idea of trade.

The GDPR effectively outlaws certain business models. "You pay with your data" is one of them.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#263

Post by KozmoNau7 »

zzzcpan wrote: post #179

If websites are going to ask for consent to tracking or deny access to the service only allowing to take the data, delete account and leave, the whole thing will become meaningless. Users will just learn to blindly accept everything, as this is a huge annoyance to them.

The GDPR does not allow you to make access contingent on PII data collection, unless your service cannot possibly work without it.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#264

Post by KozmoNau7 »

donatj wrote: post #203

With how insanely in depth some of the restrictions are, I'll honestly be surprised if this isn't the route a lot of companies end up taking to GDPR compliance.

You mean completely flouting the regulations and muddying the waters by putting up ToS compliance popups that don't have anything to do with GDPR, in order to fool their users?

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#266

Post by s73v3r_ »

ovao wrote: post #158
s73v3r_ wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see why. Without clauses like this, you'd be at the same place you were before, "Either agree to all of our completely invasive and probably unrelated terms, or go pound sand." The GDPR is shifting the balance of power back so that users do have some bargaining, not just the take it or leave it that's been so prevalent for so long.

I think the issue is that it really hasn't been a "take it or leave it" environment in the past years. Things have been done against the interest of user privacy by burying the explanations in long privacy policies filled with legalese, and in the general underhandedness of data exchange between multiple parties. The inability to remove data you've provided to a website, too, I think is problematic in ways. I'm a big…

"I think the issue is that it really hasn't been a "take it or leave it" environment in the past years."

What? Yes it has.

"I am, however, leery about laws that essentially bind a business's hands in terms of how they can and cannot monetize on users, even when as there's A) clarity and B) honest, plain and upfront disclosure about how they do that."

I'm not, mainly because business has been shown that they absolutely cannot be trusted with that. They have abused the privilege, and so they had their toy taken away. If you want to be upset at someone for that, blame the businesses for not reigning in themselves, not the governments for doing what their populaces wanted.

Not to mention, A and B almost never, ever exist.

"If a business tells me to agree to onerous terms to which I could never agree or to go pound sand, I'll gladly go pound sand. As a consumer, I lose no power there whatsoever."

You've lost all power in that relationship, because you have no power to bargain. You have no power to negotiate. And while you'll gladly go pound sand, not everyone is in a position to do so.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#267

Post by rock_hard »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #143
spullara wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since they use that data to sort your feed I think they can argue it is necessary for the service to operate.

It is not essential that they sort my feed, though. Everything still works perfectly fine with a simple chronological feed. None of the tracking they do is essential to the service they ostensibly provide to their users, namely as a microblogging/discussion/sharing platform.

I don’t think most users would find value in a product like Facebook or Google without ranking actually.

I bet that nobody would! Ranking is what makes these products work...and it requires data to do the ranking.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#268

Post by JadeNB »

jacquesm wrote: post #190
Nullabillity wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird. I only got the facial recognition screen and the "accept ToS or delete your account" one.

I guess the option 'continue to use the service without tracking' was too hard to implement technically. Or maybe nobody thought of that.

> I guess the option 'continue to use the service without tracking' was too hard to implement technically.

Given how deeply tracking is built into their business and technical model, I wouldn't be surprised if it really was too difficult to implement.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#269

Post by mozumder »

TremendousJudge wrote: post #188
mozumder wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about memes pages? Memes pages seem like the best reason to delete Facebook.

yeah because fuck having fun right

Sounds more like it's causing you to be angry instead of having fun...

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#270

Post by rock_hard »

zdragnar wrote: post #65
lotu wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that Facebook doesn’t actually sell data to advertisers. By this I mean you can’t go to Facebook and say, “I would like to buy data for 10,000 18-24 year old males in New York City, how much?” Instead you say, “I have an ad I want to show to 10,000 18-24 year old males in NYC, how much?” Facebook then handles serving the ad for you and sends you data about how succufull your campaigne was, when pe…

Unfortunately, if I run an ad targeting 18-24 year old males in New York City, and my ad manages to collect IP addresses, I have effectively purchased information about anyone who sees my ad. It's certainly not a complete profile, and may have ranges of categorizations (i.e. 18-24 years old) BUT as an advertiser, I probably wouldn't need or want data more specific than that anyway.

Unfortunately you can’t collect IP addrssses from people who saw your ad though, because FB doesn’t let you :)

You can of course though collect them if people actually click on them and come to your website! This is also the case for non targeted ads mind you as it’s simply how the web works

Post reply on HN