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Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems

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Re: Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems

#261

Post by JBlue42 »

3pt14159 wrote: post #29
Jedd wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neal Stephenson has a book that assumes such an advance -- it's not a key component of the story, but definitely features large in the title : The Diamond Age.

That’s my favourite book of his, but I’ve stopped recommending it to non-programmers because I think much of it’s magic is knowing how much of it is actually possible in the future.

>I’ve stopped recommending it to non-programmers because I think much of it’s magic is knowing how much of it is actually possible in the future.

That's sad. Recommend it and they either pick it up and read or don't. That's up to them but why not give someone a chance to be inspired, experience that magic, and think about these things?

There are more non-programmers than programmers. They spend money on and vote on things that have an effect on what's possible in the future too.

I read it as a teen, am a non-programmer, and still think about it two decades later. Everything we read can help in how we approach the world, especially as the years go by and we experience more of it.

Re: Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems

#262

Post by kerkeslager »

rubidium wrote: post #198
washadjeffmad wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a "real" diamond after protracted negotiations (with my SO, not the diamond seller), and I still don't really understand it. She cried more during the process than when her grandmother was dying, and she still wanted one particular diamond even though I'd explicitly given a significantly larger budget for either lab grown or moissanite. And although she understood why there was no real difference outside of…

A little guidance to people who may be in a similar situation. Just get what she wants. " I think she was very worried she would be judged by other women for not having (or being worth) a "real" diamond. " Your projecting your own ideas on her. "She also felt that she wanted something that showed (again, to whom?) I recognized her commitment to me and that I thought she deserved to have the things she wanted, whateve…

> A little guidance to people who may be in a similar situation. Just get what she wants.

This is, frankly, very bad advice. If you don't care about the money or your values are aligned with buying an expensive natural diamond, then sure, go for it, but that's not the person who needs advice in this situation anyway. Arguments over money are a leading cause of conflicts in relationships. Failing to address a disagreement on a large purchase like this and the underlying values that cause the disagreement are quite likely to cause conflict in your marriage.

Personally, if a potential spouse felt strongly that an expensive natural diamond was necessary, I'd consider it, but I'd need to hear some good reasoning. In the absence of other information, wanting an expensive natural diamond indicates to me a very large mismatch in values between me and the potential spouse, and I'd want to understand that mismatch before we commit to sharing finances and teaching children our values.

I don't view this as "fighting her about it", either. It's not me versus her, it's us trying to gain a better understanding of each others viewpoints and using that understanding to assess our compatibility.

>> " I think she was very worried she would be judged by other women for not having (or being worth) a "real" diamond. "

> Your projecting your own ideas on her.

Alternate theory: maybe he talked to his wife and she said that. It seems that you're making a very large assumption that the poster hasn't talked to his own wife about this.

Re: Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems

#264

Post by rconti »

rhino369 wrote: post #194
gruez wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And although she understood why there was no real difference outside of price, I think she was very worried she would be judged by other women for not having (or being worth) a "real" diamond. get fake diamond, claim it's real to everyone else. it's not like they can tell the difference, or they will take her ring to get tested.

She probably feels like its dishonest. Like hanging a fake painting.

I get that, which is why the whole thing is such a shame.

I hate that people don't just get what they want. I suppose I could be projecting, but it's like when someone shows off their engagement ring and the diamond is quite small, but then everyone has to act all amazed and find ways to gush about it. Sure, maybe they wanted something simple and modest and not too flashy (which I definitely agree with), but it just makes me think how much better off everyone would be if they bought a non-diamond ring with the same amount of money (or less!) and had something more special.

Re: Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems

#265

Post by rconti »

jimworm wrote: post #145
bawse1 wrote: post #68

I think that many of us are missing the main factor in what makes organic diamonds so expensive. Organic diamonds are "desirable". Desire is strong emotion that can defy logic and is pinnacle to the purchase of any luxury item. It is always the same argument when many of us like to compare a luxury item based on its utility rather than its desirability be it $100k tesla vs. $2k beat up honda, $1k iphone x vs. $600 an…

Counting on that for my next startup, artisanal electricity.

I already pay extra for 100% 'renewable' energy even though, of course, the actual power I am using is undoubtedly from mixed sources like everyone else's.

If only they gave me a free sign to stick in my yard proclaiming my eco-consciousness....

Re: Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems

#266

Post by stepik777 »

dsacco wrote: post #70
sharpneli wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying lab grown gems are fake is like saying "Is that Orchid you bought me a fake from greenhouse or a real one that someone picked from a jungle?" It's funny what massive marketing campaign can do.

In fairness, that massive marketing campaign only worked because people are very susceptible to preferring “natural” things over “artificial” things, especially with art and luxury items. Diamonds are not unusual in this regard.

Natural art?

Re: Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems

#267

Post by icefox »

dtien wrote: post #216
icefox wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real rubies I awesome. I picked up 50 of them that are 1cm in size to replace the plastic ones that come in my board games. The weight of them in my hand is unexpected. The upside had to be when I brought them to work and got to pore a pile of real rubies into someones hands. Only "downside" is that even though they are really hard, they can scratch each other. But eh they are cheap enough that I just tossed them in…

Curious, where are you buying real rubies from at that quantity. A quick google search returned about 10 different places, but they look more like the jewelry quality level.

I bought the ones that are round cut so yeah they are the jewelry quality ones you probably saw. I might end up turning a few into a set of earnings or a necklace or something. It was tempting to get a rod of raw ruby and smash it or something, but it is also just cool to show off a pile of rubies cut and ready to put into jewelry that I am just using as tokens in a mining board game. :D

Re: Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems

#268

Post by ameister14 »

ancap wrote: post #228
ameister14 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking about market transparency; it's more like the person selling the shares sells them to one person at a discount and another person at a high price. For a free market to function, the buyer would need to know the other prices people have paid for the same goods. If you don't have that, a free market can't work well. When you buy something in a free market, you should know its quality, characteristics and…

>...That's transparency The criteria you specify for transparency is subjective and I don't agree that all of those criteria are strictly necessary. Specifically, I don't agree that knowledge of "provenance, relative supply and transport/marketing cost" is required of a buyer at all in a free market, though they may personally have an interest in those things. I would venture that most consumers know and care very li…

We don't currently have a free market, and most customers definitely do not know the provenance, relative supply or transport/marketing cost of almost anything they buy. They trust food, for example, because the government secures it and regulates it.

>What's important is the principle of subjective value--that the buyer and the seller value what they are getting more than what they are giving up--and that can happen without the various criteria of transparency you outline.

No, that's important to a market period. A free market is a specific thing.

You need the other things to move away from the necessity of government regulation (transparency, for example.) If you don't know what's in that apple and nobody is going to make sure it's safe, you can't buy or sell it efficiently.

Re: Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems

#269

Post by dsacco »

stepik777 wrote: post #266
dsacco wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness, that massive marketing campaign only worked because people are very susceptible to preferring “natural” things over “artificial” things, especially with art and luxury items. Diamonds are not unusual in this regard.

Natural art?

For art, exchange "natural" for "authentic."

Re: Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems

#270

Post by Will_Parker »

SomeHacker44 wrote: post #97

I just don't get it. Who cares what the source of a diamond is? Isn't the point of a diamond its beauty in the eye of the beholder? If I had a big diamond I would definitely want the cheapest one possible with a visual aesthetic I like. Fortunately, my wife and I don't like diamonds and we have purple sapphires in our wedding bands.

> I just don't get it. Who cares what the source of a diamond is?

Women's cultural conditioning and arguably human nature. It being a completely unnecessary but very costly sacrifice to the man is the feature, not a bug. It doesn't need to have intrinsic value, all that matters is that it is an accurate signal of excess wealth.

There are those (like you and your wife) who see past this, which is great, and I hope this trend continues.

I don't know why the equality crowd isn't vehemently against a high and essential cost from one gender to another, nearly unilaterally. (Well, cynically they like it because it affects mostly men, and indeed works as an accurate signal of affluence.) But it would be great, for causes like income equality and the wage gap, if this could be turned symbolic, instead of an actual costly sacrifice which is entirely a burden on men.

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