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Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “illegal” diversity efforts

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Re: Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “illegal” diversity efforts

#261

Post by chuckcode »

0xfeba wrote: post #182
gpm wrote: post #87

People should check out the actual complaint [0]. It includes a lot of things the article doesn't including: A screenshot of an email from Allison Alogna to "Team" stating > Please continue with L3 candidates in process and only accept new L3 candidates that are from historically unrepresented groups. Another stating in part > And we should only consider L3s from our underrepresented groups. It also tells us that thi…

I don't understand how this didn't raise red flags from legal/HR. From the article: > In a statement, Google said [...] it has a "clear policy to hire candidates based on their merit, not their identity. At the same time, we unapologetically try to find a diverse pool of qualified candidates for open roles[...]" You can't have it both ways. You're either based solely on merit, or on merit and how non-male and non-whi…

Completely agree about missing the actual benefit to society of focusing on better education and opportunities for all. Amazing how quickly things can go off the rails when you start evaluating middle management off some metric like "number of diversity hires" which seems like a good idea but then backfires into something ridiculous like this. I hope this sets a fire under Google's management to keep better track of HR

Re: Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “illegal” diversity efforts

#262

Post by yorwba »

decorator wrote: post #159
decorator wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can be sure of a counterfactual? Really.

It seems counterfactuals can be known (according to the downvotes). It must be clear how truth-values can be obtained. I must have missed the news about A/B testing reality. Silly me.

Your comment may be factually correct, but doesn't make clear how it applies to its parent. In combination with the dismissive tone, it's not a good contribution to the discussion. Piling on by being presumptive about the reason for downvotes doesn't help.

Re: Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “illegal” diversity efforts

#263

Post by TheRealDunkirk »

hodgesrm wrote: post #195
xxcode wrote: post #85

I work at Google. It is the most unpleasant place to work, largely because work evaluation is almost 80% politics (might be 100%). I am a senior engineer. You get stuck here because the pay you better than elsewhere, but I think it is a very bad and very sad place to work. My stomach curdles every morning before going to work and I wonder if it is worth it. Many of my peers talk in the same vein. Please consider not…

Please don't take this the wrong way, but attitudes like what you just described contribute to a toxic work culture--people sticking around just because of the money but hating every minute of it. It implies that people there are not just unhappy but will do/say things they don't believe in just to keep the paychecks rolling in. Working at big companies like Google is not for everyone. Unless you have material reason…

So you don't see the problem as lying with the people who dictate stupid policies because they don't know what they're talking about? You think the problem is with the people who try to push back, realize that there's no future in it, and learn how to shut up and keep their head down? Uh...

Re: Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “illegal” diversity efforts

#264

Post by HelloNurse »

edanm wrote: post #108
nugi wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is 'allowing for variance' up to and including racism and sexisism in hiring? Because it seems like you are giving them a pass, because there are many hiring managers.

If someone who worked for Walmart became a murderer, would you condemn all of Walmart as murderers? Promoting a culture of murder? If that's too far removed from the actual job for you, how about if someone at Walmart acted in a sexist way in an interview. Would you condemn all of Walmart? Would you automatically assume there is a culture of sexism? Or would you at least entertain the possibility that Walmart employs…

A Walmart shop could be an isolated environment where a bad person can prosper despite a generally contrary company culture, but it isn't an appropriate comparison for this case: important HR managers like this Alogna aren't many, even in a large company, and the higher level management who kept him and fired the recruiter is an even smaller part of Google. They must be assumed to be representative of the whole company.

Re: Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “illegal” diversity efforts

#265

Post by bitL »

soreasan wrote: post #197
colmvp wrote: post #126

I have to say, as an Asian male I found this comment by dirtyid in the article to be succinct and all too true: > "Pour one out for Asian males. Get screwed by affirmative action in education, media representation and now employment but can't get screwed on dating apps." Asian men constantly get grouped as a single entity when it comes to tech and aren't considered an added element of diverseness within the industry…

As an Asian male this article also frustrates me. Google has always been a company I've wanted to work for but if this article is true and Google discriminates against Whites and Asians in their hiring process then they're not the dream company I previously believed they were.

Go to FaceBook, they still retained hacker spirit, at least for time being. You can meet a lot of previously frustrated Googlers there.

Re: Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “illegal” diversity efforts

#266

Post by arsey »

colmvp wrote: post #126

I have to say, as an Asian male I found this comment by dirtyid in the article to be succinct and all too true: > "Pour one out for Asian males. Get screwed by affirmative action in education, media representation and now employment but can't get screwed on dating apps." Asian men constantly get grouped as a single entity when it comes to tech and aren't considered an added element of diverseness within the industry…

You're conflating issues, and that's fine because you're frustrated. But we are over-represented in tech, and not anywhere else. There are obvious systems-level hiring problems that this company has and they're trying to fix that. It's so strange and selfish to hear "they should not try and fix this".

Re: Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “illegal” diversity efforts

#267

Post by throwawaybipbop »

xxcode wrote: post #85

I work at Google. It is the most unpleasant place to work, largely because work evaluation is almost 80% politics (might be 100%). I am a senior engineer. You get stuck here because the pay you better than elsewhere, but I think it is a very bad and very sad place to work. My stomach curdles every morning before going to work and I wonder if it is worth it. Many of my peers talk in the same vein. Please consider not…

(throwaway account for obvious reasons)

I left Google a few years ago, and I did love working there, but unfortunately my experience was similar. I was on one of the non-software engineering ladders. The group I was part of grew very rapidly the first few years I was there. We were poaching the absolute best people from the best companies to come work on our team. It seemed like there was a new former principal engineer from MegaCo joining us weekly, and it was fantastic to be part of such a team.

But how people got promoted was sometimes a mystery, at least at first. Everyone knew who was the most productive, the most valuable. Yet the promotions too often appeared random. Because we were on a narrower, more specialized engineering ladder the promo committees consisted of the same handful of very senior engineers each time. After a while, it became clear to us that the people that worked with those engineers on the promo committee in their day-to-day ended up having their promotions approved. Those that didn't had far less chance.

This might not sound all that bad - if you're doing high-level work you should be engaged with high-level people. But it ended up becoming a patronage system: people would volunteer their support and time for the pet projects of those on the promo committee and in return they would get promoted. Engineers who weren't comfortable with such an arrangement ended up jaded and underpayed.

I saw one engineer who left a very, very senior position at a well-known company especially hurt by the realization that they would have to participate in this charade to move up. He/she had attempted to get promoted the right way a few times and failed. Under pressure from their significant other, they played the game and it visibly hurt their sense of pride. The promo committee members took turns jerking them around with various tasks for a year or so, but he/she got their promotion. The rest of us took notice.

I got the sense that this system was more comfortable to those who came to us from academia. I barely have a college degree myself so maybe I can't relate.

Re: Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “illegal” diversity efforts

#268

Post by dilap »

xxcode wrote: post #85

I work at Google. It is the most unpleasant place to work, largely because work evaluation is almost 80% politics (might be 100%). I am a senior engineer. You get stuck here because the pay you better than elsewhere, but I think it is a very bad and very sad place to work. My stomach curdles every morning before going to work and I wonder if it is worth it. Many of my peers talk in the same vein. Please consider not…

a quick browse of your comment history suggests we'd enjoy working together. n3twork, mobile video games. san francisco. email me at erin@n3twork.com if you think you might be interested.

Re: Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “illegal” diversity efforts

#269

Post by seanmcdirmid »

to3m wrote: post #9

Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16497551

This one has been flagged out also. It’s beginning to look like HN really doesn’t like this story, since it’s the third time in the last 24 hours they’ve blown it off the front page.

Re: Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired because I resisted “illegal” diversity efforts

#270

Post by mintplant »

Slansitartop wrote: post #205
gedy wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, and it's a failing of humanity that we lump people together based on their appearances. That ironically includes the people who try and "fix" discrimination.

I would say that only applies to the people who try to fix discrimination by using group-identity-based adjustments. I'd think that attempts to fix discrimination that focus on forming shared identity (replacing the old categories) would not be susceptible to the same problems.

In psychology this is referred to as the common ingroup identity model for reducing intergroup bias. There are indications that the effects achieved are only temporary in nature, and negative outcomes can result from the loss of the overridden identities.
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