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Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

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Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#261

Post by Balgair »

aarongough wrote: post #256
woodandsteel wrote: post #253

Here's my way of explaining to managers why software developers need to be left undisturbed. Software developers on average write only about ten lines a day. The reason the process is so slow is that for each new line of code, you are trying to accomplish a task, and their are a great many different specific ways to do it. However, you can't pick just any way of doing it. That's because any line of code will impact o…

> Software developers on average write only about ten lines a day That is far too low of an estimate for any productive programmer. Perhaps when trying to solve some sort of insanely complex bug perhaps?

If anything, good programming may result in a negative amount of avg. lines/day.

Depends on job though, of course.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#262

Post by majormajor »

woodandsteel wrote: post #253

Here's my way of explaining to managers why software developers need to be left undisturbed. Software developers on average write only about ten lines a day. The reason the process is so slow is that for each new line of code, you are trying to accomplish a task, and their are a great many different specific ways to do it. However, you can't pick just any way of doing it. That's because any line of code will impact o…

> That's because any line of code will impact on dozens of different things in the program

I'd say that's something to avoid whenever possible.

But that's just pushing the metaphor back a level: in order to know how to design your codebase so that it's well-organized and extensible, you have to have a pretty good understanding of what it does, what it needs to do, and how it does it.

For me... once I get into the zone on that, all the noise in the world can't distract me. But conversations by my desk, other people's music, drive-bys by the boss, all those things make it harder to get into the zone. (Though, for me, this means it's way easier to work around strangers in a truly shared space than around co-workers who I'm more likely to talk to.)

On the other hand: Foosball, ping pong, video games -- all those are obviously distractions. They're there to make it easier to take a break without checking out and going home for the day, but I've seen many people (shared office or no) fall into the trap of letting the job be the distraction from the play.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#263

Post by dragonwriter »

unreal37 wrote: post #260
logfromblammo wrote: post #92

Is this some kind of coastal culture thing, to add all kinds of stupid, non-productive crap to your work environment? Here in flyover country, you can rent an entire suite of multiple private offices in a strip of class B office-park units, including utilities, for less than what WeWork is apparently asking for just one private office. And that's without the insane brand-connected features like having beer kegs at wo…

I don't consider Toronto "coastal". If it is, what coast is that exactly?

The "Lake Ontario coast"?

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#264

Post by rthrowayay »

woodandsteel wrote: post #253

Here's my way of explaining to managers why software developers need to be left undisturbed. Software developers on average write only about ten lines a day. The reason the process is so slow is that for each new line of code, you are trying to accomplish a task, and their are a great many different specific ways to do it. However, you can't pick just any way of doing it. That's because any line of code will impact o…

Reading this comment. I have to admit the reason I write 10 lines of code on average is because I spend 95 percent of my work time browsing hackernews or slatestarcodex or dare I say r/the_donald. I also strongly suspect a lot of people are avoiding work in a similar way based on relative productivity.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#265

Post by irrational »

woodandsteel wrote: post #253

Here's my way of explaining to managers why software developers need to be left undisturbed. Software developers on average write only about ten lines a day. The reason the process is so slow is that for each new line of code, you are trying to accomplish a task, and their are a great many different specific ways to do it. However, you can't pick just any way of doing it. That's because any line of code will impact o…

>why software developers need to be left undisturbed

I've tried explaining this to manager and business type of people. I've even shown them articles and papers about this topic. All I've ever gotten is mocking and scoffs about how we aren't special snowflakes and how every job requires thinking and concentration. Maybe they are right. I've never been a manager or business person. But it seems to me they spend an awful lot more time talking and creating powerpoints than they do thinking.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#267

Post by az123zaz »

This narrative seems to be common these days about WeWork:

- it has a high valuation - nobody there really works - everyone there is a stupid startup that won't pan out - WeWork is a scam

In the past, I've worked at fortune 50 companies in private office, at startups in open office, rented space personally at various coworking spaces, and currently rent a hot desk in a WeWork in Brooklyn.

Where I work, on any given weekday the shared workspace of about 45 desks is 60% full with people working silently or talking very quietly. It is a great environment for technical work. The music doesn't play in the shared work space but it does in the common eating area / kitchen where people frequently do work and talk to one another.

I think this "trash the new unicorn" mentality is fun to write about but in my experience, WeWork really is better.

One example of something they do extraordinarily well is that their phone booths actually work and give real privacy. The internet is always perfect. Things like that matter when you want to be productive. There is paper shredding service. The mugs are always clean. The snack bar is cheap and always stocked.

There are also network effects. I frequently have meetings in Manhattan spread throughout the day. No matter what part of town I'm in, I almost always can rent a desk at a location nearby for free (or for $25 if I've done it a lot that month).

This is just my experience but IMO WeWork is definitely worth it. I pay $350/mo. Maybe it's not for everyone but I am happy giving them my money for what I get in return.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#268

Post by musage »

jaymzcampbell wrote: post #99
skellera wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My office has multiple kitchens that are always pretty clean. Everyone washes what they use and clean up after themselves. I don’t see why it should be different anywhere else. Some people just aren’t good at being responsible.

I've had this problem in almost every office I've worked at. It shouldn't be different but for whatever reason, people seem to think it beneath them. I often wondered what state some of my co-worker's houses were in.

My apartment regularly is a mess when I'm not expecting visitors, but at work it still annoys me that people just put cups they drank some water from into the sink instead of the dishwasher. I bring my own thermos and tend to not eat at work so I never need to use the sink or the dishes, yet I often clean it up a little or completely because it's a 2 minute job that makes things better for everybody.

But just walking by that pathetic mess (pathetic not because it's so gross, but because it's so unnecessary and lame) lowers my opinion of my co-workers in a vague and therefore unfair way, so this thread made me decide that enough is enough. I'll address each and every person I see putting their dishes in the sink, friendly, but firmly. I want to encourage everybody to join me in this quest, in their corner of the world. It's not a small thing, and we can't very well talk about big things like integrity, justice, pollution etc. while people put their cup in the sink instead of the dishwasher half a meter away, to make it someone's else problem.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#269

Post by ShorsHammer »

Artemis2 wrote: post #155
gregmac wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All it takes is one person to really mess it up. It's kind of like breaking the ice -- the barrier to actually making the area go from "clean" to "not clean" is much higher than just making it go from "messy" to "slightly messier". In an office with a dozen or more people there's a pretty high chance there's at least one person who is lazy, "too important" and/or "too busy" to clean up after themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory might be an interesting read.

Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

> a shared-resource system where individual users acting independently according to their own self-interest behave contrary to the common good of all users by depleting or spoiling that resource through their collective action.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#270

Post by moogie »

bunderbunder wrote: post #235
scaryclam wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I drink. I like Friday beers. I absolutely stamp down on any of my team who attempt to pressure others to drink or ostracise others in the company for not drinking. Friday beers is meant to help colleagues bond, so behavior that excludes some people or makes them want to leave isn't OK. Luckily the companies I've worked at have all been non-drinker friendly as well as drinker friendly. There's always a non-alcoholic…

Friday beers is something that can exclude people, though, even if they're not being pressured to drink. Alcohol is a sort of culturally fraught thing that's important to some people, but for others - members of some religious groups, recovering alcoholics, and victims of drinking-related abuse come to mind - simply being in the presence of someone who's consuming alcohol can be an uncomfortable experience. I don't t…

If you want to think like that, so do morning coffees, someone eating chicken for lunch and someone on a diet! Seriously, some adult thinking needs to be in place. I know several people with alcohol problems, devout Muslims and an abuse victim. Here's a hint, other people drinking isn't a problem for them. That's a part of life and they're mature enough to accept it. Sounds like the person you're replying to has plenty of inclusiveness, no reason to stop everyone elses enjoyment for the sake of the possibility that someone's not matured enough to accept it.
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