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OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

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Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#261

Post by pbowyer »

stereo wrote: post #224
pbowyer wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Probably right: OSM needs layers, or even a more sweeping re-architecture to allow better versioning, moderation, better tooling, and easier understanding of the data. I have a hobby site about railways [0] I'm picking up again after a decade of inactivity. I wanted to display a route map of each railway, with clickable stations and the route highlighted. I can not work out how to do that. OSM has the route and sta…

Here’s something similar I’ve built: https://stereo.lu/charely

Thanks, that was fascinating to read (even allowing for my poor french). That is the kind of data I'm looking to get out.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#262

Post by pbowyer »

dvdkon wrote: post #260
pbowyer wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Probably right: OSM needs layers, or even a more sweeping re-architecture to allow better versioning, moderation, better tooling, and easier understanding of the data. I have a hobby site about railways [0] I'm picking up again after a decade of inactivity. I wanted to display a route map of each railway, with clickable stations and the route highlighted. I can not work out how to do that. OSM has the route and sta…

I'm currently doing something very similar for my school project and it's been quite a journey, the OSM ecosystem sure isn't simple. My current solution is based on OpenMapTiles and uses their stack for creating, and subsequently rendering, vector tiles. First, I obtain an extract of OSM data via the Overpass API. Then I convert it from XML to protobuf, as it's a much more efficient format. Afterwards I import it int…

Wow that is complicated! Thanks for sharing, it's good to know how time consuming this could be if I take it further.

It sounds like Overpass is the way to get the data I need - once I figure out how to reference it in Overpass (network/relation details).

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#263

Post by pbowyer »

gpsx wrote: post #65

Previously I really like the flexibility of the tagging system in open street map. I used something like it for a unrelated commercial product and we have found we have to switch away from it. And we had very tight control over the definitions of the tagging we were using. The tools were difficult, as is mentioned in the main post. That is certainly an inconvenience but I figured we could muddle through that. The big…

I like the sound of this, like an object graph of data from OSM.

> I am not sure how well this type of system could work in open street map. Is it too rigid? Or would there be too much proliferation of types? Classification is always hard and I am not sure people have solved that problem in any large context.

Ontologies are well-researched. Unfortunately they're not my area of expertise as I turned away from doing a PhD in them and went into business.

I have been playing with a controlled vocabulary since Christmas for a personal project and the complexity of definition has made me think this is why Google et al have gone for a more flexible, machine-learned typing, and why the types for schema.org are so broad.

Having been negative, I think this is exactly what OSM needs to organise the world's objects.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#264

Post by pbowyer »

iamdave wrote: post #122
pbowyer wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Probably right: OSM needs layers, or even a more sweeping re-architecture to allow better versioning, moderation, better tooling, and easier understanding of the data. I have a hobby site about railways [0] I'm picking up again after a decade of inactivity. I wanted to display a route map of each railway, with clickable stations and the route highlighted. I can not work out how to do that. OSM has the route and sta…

The type of data you want for routes is probably in KMZ format. I took a few minutes looking around openrailwaymap and their wiki but nothing immediately obvious stood out. https://catalog.data.gov/dataset/railroad-kmz A brief google search came back with this; I haven't inspected the data or even tried to use it to see what it contains, but the page description indicates it may not be exact routes you are looking fo…

Thanks for the offer, I got 75% through writing you an email and finally managed to get some data exported via https://overpass-turbo.eu/, so I'll work on that for now. Thanks though!

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#265

Post by dagw »

balp wrote: post #205
dagw wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that OSM is great for roads and on the whole at least as complete and up to date as gmaps. However when it comes to buildings and landmarks it's way behind in my experience (at least in Sweden). Having roads is great, but it would be nice if it also had my destination.

For me in Sweden that relly depends on where in the contry we are, most maps (except OSM) have imported a registry of companies (PRV or Skatteverket) that keeps the address for most small companies as the owners home address. So the restaurang shows up in a village a few miles away from it's actual location. This made gmaps and foursquare useless for finding the destination. For me OSM is better of having this right,…

Adresses and geocoding are another problem. My main complaint was that a lot of buildings simply aren't on the map at all.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#266

Post by sorenjan »

bhousel wrote: post #196
sorenjan wrote: post #183

One thing that made me a bit nervous to start editing is the lack of an easy way to roll back changes, at least I couldn't find one using the iD editor. If I make a mistake and save it I need to do new edits to try and fix it, possibly making things worse, instead of just removing the entire changeset. I had some issues with multipolygons and had to edit the same things maybe four or five times before I got it right.…

Hey sorenjan - The OSM Wiki is not correct. We've received no license from Strava that allows tracing outside of their iD fork. Current progress on securing permission to use the heatmap for OSM tracing is happening here: https://github.com/osmlab/editor-layer-index/pull/373

Ok, good to know. It seems mostly academic though, since using their iD fork with the slide add-on [0] is a better user experience, and someone from Strava mentions in the Github issue that it's approved internally. Of course I'm no lawyer and I understand that proper licensing is important, I'll just use their fork for now when tracing their heatmap.

I see that you're the iD maintainer, are there any plans on adding the slide functionality? Or b-splines which could get tessellated client side before saving to the database? I can take this opportunity to thank you and the other contributors, I probably wouldn't edit OSM if it weren't for iD.

[0] https://labs.strava.com/slide/

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#267

Post by maxerickson »

madez wrote: post #161

I would love to mirror OSM including all the data, the rendering and the website. Is there a way to do that? I can get the data[0], but is there some guide or container image that includes all the rest that is needed in a working condition? [0] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Planet.osm

More directly answering your question, most of the configuration of the various servers backing OSM is available here: https://github.com/openstreetmap/chef

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#268

Post by WhitneyLand »

Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #165
WhitneyLand wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make the point OSM should be a database and not a service, but that’s a false dichotomy as nothing inherently prevents it from being both. The main point against a service seems to be that’s it’s an expensive thing to do, however I don’t see how we can draw any conclusion from that without weighing the costs against the upsides. I don’t see how the expense argument can be made with confidence without first establ…

OSM has gained countless new capabilities since moving to API 0.6 in 2009. World-class, super-fast routing. Beautiful vector maps. A much easier raster map API. A powerful and performant query language. To say that progress is being "blocked" is not at all accurate. Sure, these aren't provided by what's formally known as the "OSM API". They are provided by OSRM/Graphhopper, Mapbox GL/Tangram, Leaflet/OpenLayers 3, an…

Do you have any connection to any company involved with OSM tech, just so I understand your perspective?

Mentioning OSM has gained functionality is irrelevant, the article’s point is the API which serves a different purpose. What other companies offer is irrelevant that’s not OSM.

Your other points seem to attempt to diminish the importance of the API, yet the state of modern software has become such that almost any significant software project can benefit from a rich, well implemented and maintained API.

Not to mention maintaining a high quality API often in and of itself leads to improvements in the overall architecture of software, due to how it encourages careful thought about the purpose and organization of the system.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#269

Post by rmc »

WhitneyLand wrote: post #268
Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OSM has gained countless new capabilities since moving to API 0.6 in 2009. World-class, super-fast routing. Beautiful vector maps. A much easier raster map API. A powerful and performant query language. To say that progress is being "blocked" is not at all accurate. Sure, these aren't provided by what's formally known as the "OSM API". They are provided by OSRM/Graphhopper, Mapbox GL/Tangram, Leaflet/OpenLayers 3, an…

Do you have any connection to any company involved with OSM tech, just so I understand your perspective? Mentioning OSM has gained functionality is irrelevant, the article’s point is the API which serves a different purpose. What other companies offer is irrelevant that’s not OSM. Your other points seem to attempt to diminish the importance of the API, yet the state of modern software has become such that almost any…

The "OSM API" is an editing API, for editing the map.

The OSM ecosystem has gained some new, much more powerful APIs, which Doctor_Fegg mentions. OSRM's API, GraphHopper's API, Overpass's API, these are all better than the APIs that were available in 2009

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#270

Post by Zverik »

btilly wrote: post #106

Here is my experience. I work for a company that syndicates location data for businesses. We had a couple of businesses that wanted to syndicate to OSM. It. Was. A. Nightmare. We have addresses for every store. We don't know where the building is. Any store we place is going to be easy to place on a street near the building. If you've not placed it inside of the strip mall on the right spot, other people delete it. A…

Hi, we at Maps.Me do this for Brandify: we've recently helped them import 4k of Walmart stores across the US, and next week there will be a few hundred fitness centers. While importing third-party data is hard, it is possible, and I am working to make that a norm for OSM. Google "OSM Conflator" for details, write to iz@maps.me if you need help.
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