How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? • Hacker News Board

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#261

Post by zeveb » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 9:16 PM UTC

malvosenior wrote: post #177

PoachedSausage wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it is now, but it was not always the case. At the dawn of age of reason you would have certainly needed to be independently wealthy (upper class) in order to pursue purely intellectual activities. For a time, anti-intellectualism was perhaps not as prevalent within the working class. Education was seen as a way to better ones self, people tended allotment gardens and took part in sports and cultural activitie…

What I've seen (and mentioned in another comment) is that the upper classes view "education" to mean private liberal arts school, not math/computers/science. I think those are viewed as too hard to pursue if you don't have to and populated by non-rich people. That's definitely a generalization and not always the case but I've seen it a lot. I notice a sort of cognitive dissonance with them though. It's undeniable tha…

> What I've seen (and mentioned in another comment) is that the upper classes view "education" to mean private liberal arts school, not math/computers/science. I think those are viewed as too hard to pursue if you don't have to and populated by non-rich people.

I don't think that it's about the difficulty of math/computers/science; it's about the goal of the degree. A liberal arts degree is not a vocational credential: it means that one has been taught to think (literally, the 'liberal arts' are those studies useful to a free man, not an employee). If you have a math or chemistry degree, that can still be upper-class so long as you're not intending to make your money in math or chemistry; it's when you had to study a subject so that you can afford to live that you mark yourself as not upper class.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#262

Post by emodendroket » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 9:16 PM UTC

kbenson wrote: post #120

stcredzero wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never order a burger at a restaurant. I've noticed that waiters/waitresses seem to treat me worse if I order a beer where I could've ordered wine. Especially when the cuisine is French or centered around steak.

I could see that. Luckily, craft brewing is getting so big that some places also have interesting beer selections presented almost like a wine list. Probably not French places though, or higher end steakhouses. :/

I mean, if you're into sour beers at all you can easily pay fine wine-like prices for beer.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#263

Post by emodendroket » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 9:23 PM UTC

snvzz wrote: post #158

Why bother? The so-called high-class are born rich. They never had to work hard for what they have. You can be pretty sure they couldn't. Most poor people do stay poor, after all. If you made your own fortune, then you're objectively better than most of them. In fact, they do not deserve your time.

Well, because to be successful in their world you have to, if not pass for one of them, at least not make them so uncomfortable they don't want to work with you.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#264

Post by gbacon » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 9:24 PM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #250

ShabbosGoy wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a difference between working hard and working smart. One is the brute force solution. The other uses a heuristic to narrow the solution space.

I think the point here is that in white-collar workplaces long hours are mostly an abstract way of signaling that you take the job seriously, not exhausting in the way that long hours in a job demanding physical labor would be.

There are different kinds of tired — physically exhausted, brain-fried, and emotionally spent — but I’m not making any sort of comparison between them.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#265

Post by 20180201 » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 9:26 PM UTC

saget wrote: post #123

ericd wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to become wealthy is to spend less than you make. The only way to stay wealthy is to spend less than you make (and have your investments outpace inflation). One of the best ways to do that is to not inflate your lifestyle, like starting to think you're too good for things like putting together your furniture from Ikea.

Some of the wealthiest people I know are also the cheapest. The other week my gf's parents (very well off) refused to go to a clinic that their insurance didn't work at after their son cut off the tip of his finger. Took them and hour to find a place to go. It seemed absurd from my perspective to put a few hundred dollars in front of a medical emergency when you can afford a private plane, but I guess that's part of…

> Some of the wealthiest people I know are also the cheapest.

this statement always shows up in these kinds of threads.

i bet some of the poorest people you know are just as cheap. and middle class too.

and in fact, as it turns out, there are cheap people all over the wealth spectrum. i'm going to go out on a limb here and say that being cheap/stingey is actually completely uncorrelated with wealth. it's a character trait like agreeableness.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#266

Post by emodendroket » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 9:27 PM UTC

gbacon wrote: post #264

emodendroket wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point here is that in white-collar workplaces long hours are mostly an abstract way of signaling that you take the job seriously, not exhausting in the way that long hours in a job demanding physical labor would be.

There are different kinds of tired — physically exhausted, brain-fried, and emotionally spent — but I’m not making any sort of comparison between them.

Yeah, but the guy who always stays after at work, how much of his time is work and how much of it is browsing Reddit?

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#267

Post by angarg12 » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 9:32 PM UTC

johngalt wrote: post #219

There is a difference between those who actually have money and class vs people desperately trying to project the image of money and class. Anyone concerned about 'class-passing' should be aware that it's not the top that is behaviorally constraining, it is the middle. The people most obsessed with putting up the act of their high class are those whom aren't there yet. The mid level professional who is working 80hrs…

Read "The millionaire next door" for a book-length explanation of this.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#268

Post by hkmurakami » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 9:34 PM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #207

rayiner wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The clothing stuff works the other way too. My parents were always well off, but we’re immigrants. I know to wear a nice suit to a client meeting. But I’m completely at a loss when it comes to all the intermediate levels of clothing. Like, what do you wear when it would be weird to wear a business suit but improper to wear jeans?

Take a look in Brooks Brothers or Banana Republic. You'll see the standard upper-middle-class smart-casual wardrobe - chinos and cords, oxford shirts, v-neck sweaters, sport coats and brogues. There's some nuance, but it's not rocket science.

imo the social attire is much more difficult to parse than the business attire.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#269

Post by JBlue42 » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 9:35 PM UTC

hiuaql wrote: post #237

JBlue42 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good point. We've been idealizing rural / commoner folk for a while. IIRC, French nobility in the 18th or 19th century had the habit of running out to the country and playacting as peasants for fun. Not to mention there's a glut of 'rural/blue collar porn', (Duck Dynasty, etc) or at least there was a few years back. Some of that maybe people watched condescendingly but there could also be the tendency of po…

Duck Dynasty's audience was not substantially less rural / blue collar than the cast. There's a glut of "urban white collar porn": Nearly all mainstream television sitcoms and dramas.

Think I had this older article in the back of my head when writing that:

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2012/08/here_c...

I don't disagree about urban white collar porn (sitcoms, dramas, sure but all those house hunting shows too) but neither of these were the main thrust of my comment.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#270

Post by godelski » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 9:36 PM UTC

athenot wrote: post #147

dizzystar wrote: post #82

This article resonates with me on many levels. I went from below $10/hr to 5x that and never experienced anything in between. The struggle is huge, and I keep having to look inside myself to figure out what "my people" is supposed to mean. A huge different that's obvious to me is the language we use. I often wonder why no one's mother didn't fill the these people's mouth with dawn liquid soap and slap the child silly…

> it took me many years to realize that the posters who upvote and share these articles are not only aware of the heavy fog, but are able to read though the fog Follow the money. I'm always asking myself "what does this author have to gain from writing this, or holding that position?" It can happen that there is absolutely no financial motive, many times it's pure greed but often it's on a continuum that's a mix of b…

There is also an ego aspect to it. When people have done well they think it is all skill. Look at people who were really successful on crypto and now give financial advise as if they were an economist. Or go to a casino and talk to someone after they win big.

What they can gain is in the ego as well. Though I 100% agree, always follow the money. But never underestimate how often things are written with the purpose of saying "look how great I am, you should envy me."