Union Is Formed at Los Angeles Times and Publisher Put on Leave • Hacker News Board

Re: Union Is Formed at Los Angeles Times and Publisher Put on Leave

#261

Post by tatersolid » Sun, Jan 21, 2018, 12:13 PM UTC

hux_ wrote: post #233

losteverything wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great comment. Your point "dont really think that software engineers could benefit much from unionization" I disagree in one respect: hours and time of day worked. If rules exist that mean you dont work weekends or holidays or more than 50 hours in a week you as an engineer could simply cite rules amd say no. Rules could exist for who has to work those times...

Software engineers haven't evolved enough to realize developers and engineering managers both are highly replacaleable cogs in a software factory. Until influential teams (Devs+Mgrs) that work well together learn the value of sticking together, software unions won't take off.

As an IT director, I can tell you first hand neither good devs nor nor product team managers are “easily replaceable”.

It takes months to find a good developer of any type on the open market (in Chicago at least).

Domain knowledge in the vertical markets in which we operate takes months after hire as well.

Re: Union Is Formed at Los Angeles Times and Publisher Put on Leave

#262

Post by mvid » Sun, Jan 21, 2018, 6:32 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #137

mvid wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I could invest in whichever back doctor is closest to you

You really think one form of sitting is better than another? I think I'd rather alternate between slouching for 40 minutes and then walking around for 10 then to sit at a desk. But, we'll see how my experiment pans out! (I worked from a couch at WeWork for a year prior to this and it didn't seem to ruin me).

I've been told so by some back professionals. I don't think it's that one form of sitting is better than another, everything else being equal. It's more about the neck alignment to the direction of your hips, which couches are notoriously bad about.

It probably makes the difference that you have a swing arm, and aren't looking at a machine on your knees.

Re: Union Is Formed at Los Angeles Times and Publisher Put on Leave

#263

Post by rm_-rf_slash » Sun, Jan 21, 2018, 11:25 PM UTC

knieveltech wrote: post #228

SteveGerencser wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience is quite similar, in two different unions. The first was in the Teamsters at a bottling plant and the second was some years later, on the other side of the country, in the Teacher's Union in California. I left both jobs because of the way they were run by the unions. In the first, it was 100% seniority-based with zero regards to effort or skill. The second I left for basically the same reason. Ability p…

Yeah unions have definitely changed over the last 40 years. Folks forgot the meaning of the word "solidarity" and are too impatient to put their time in like the older workers they like to complain about. There was an old guy that worked in a union fabrication shop where I used to work. His sole job was to run the band saw that we used to cut structural steel. Given how long a single cut took he spent the overwhelmin…

That was a great example, thank you.

One way of looking at his role could have been that while you were running around, his health and safety was being preserved. If he (or any other vital employee) was injured in an accident that didn’t involve his explicit job requirements, that could have resulted in a bottleneck much more costly than his clocked time spent reading books.

Re: Union Is Formed at Los Angeles Times and Publisher Put on Leave

#264

Post by SEJeff » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 10:43 PM UTC

steveax wrote: post #209

SEJeff wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were doing alright, they just had the highest paid stewardesses in the industry (by a large amount actually) for a solid mid-range airline when it comes to KPIs. If they'd have agreed to be paid more in line with what the industry was paying stewardesses there is a great chance the airline would still be open. Also, no matter how you look at it. The result of the failed negotiations was them selling 90 planes to…

I would suggest that not honoring a picket line was a concrete demonstration of your opinion of unions whether you realized that at the time or not.

There was no picket line to not honor. I was in the backoffice IT department as a Unix admin, they were on the plane. My "union" of IT workers did not strike, and I didn't fly during that time, so there was literally no demonstration of my opinion. Perhaps you misunderstood my comment?

Re: Union Is Formed at Los Angeles Times and Publisher Put on Leave

#265

Post by zjaffee » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 12:15 AM UTC

noobermin wrote: post #203

zjaffee wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal issue with unions is I've seen the way my family members work places have acted through the fact that collective bargaining has given them the ability to leverage things such as years served as a way to dictate many aspects of how the organization is run. Additionally, it is very hard to fire people, where people can coast for years and still continue to get raises and even promotions. Additionally, union…

>Additionally, unions force costs to go up on many projects and revert any productivity gains that technology has provided. Perhaps at individual companies, but the overall trend is pay has not kept pace with productivity gains, so the overall trend across society is the reverse of what you're worrying about.

The productivity in certain aspects of construction and many government services has in fact gone down in recent years. Sure society wide, we have seen massive productivity gains, and unionization with the only purpose of capturing these gains back to the workers would be one thing, but to force them to fall without anything new added to the table is problematic.

Re: Union Is Formed at Los Angeles Times and Publisher Put on Leave

#266

Post by steveax » Fri, Jan 26, 2018, 1:45 AM UTC

SEJeff wrote: post #264

steveax wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would suggest that not honoring a picket line was a concrete demonstration of your opinion of unions whether you realized that at the time or not.

There was no picket line to not honor. I was in the backoffice IT department as a Unix admin, they were on the plane. My "union" of IT workers did not strike, and I didn't fly during that time, so there was literally no demonstration of my opinion. Perhaps you misunderstood my comment?

I think I did, apologies for that!