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New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices
261–270 of 297 posts
Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
Then, bluntly, you have made your choice. Those unwilling to stand up for themselves can't expect anyone else to stand up for them.
Exactly. I can't afford to stand up for my ideals at the border . I expect people (including myself) to stand up for these things, just not at the border . My main way of disagreeing with policies like this is to simply skip any travel to the US. I can't vote, but I can vote with my wallet. But basically saying that people should either accept that their expensive holiday (or job) might go down the toilet, or they ha…
Wouldn't a clean burner phone and clean computer work for you?
There are always ways.
Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
The immigration system is horribly broken. My wife, too, is an immigrant, and our experience is vastly different from yours. For example, they scheduled her for an interview on a date that was impossible for her to make (iirc, that was her first day of a new job). She went to the INS offices to ask to have it rescheduled, and the person at the desk just gave her a flat "no, we do not reschedule interviews". My wife a…
As an immigrant, I wouldn't expect them to make adjustments for my schedule. It's unfortunate that you went through this, but for most people priorities are different.
> As an immigrant, I wouldn't expect them to make adjustments for my schedule.
Your desire not to be a burden is laudable, but there's a more-important principle at stake here. Government officials should always make an effort to accommodate reasonable requests, or if that's not possible, to explain why — and moreover, those officials, as representatives of this country and its citizens (including me), should damned well be at least that welcoming and courteous to a visitor or new resident such as the GP's wife. Assuming that the GP was accurately telling the whole story, every American should be thoroughly embarrassed that the GP's wife was treated so abysmally, and the officials responsible should be disciplined.
Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. I can't afford to stand up for my ideals at the border . I expect people (including myself) to stand up for these things, just not at the border . My main way of disagreeing with policies like this is to simply skip any travel to the US. I can't vote, but I can vote with my wallet. But basically saying that people should either accept that their expensive holiday (or job) might go down the toilet, or they ha…
I'm not talking about your (or anyone else's) principles. I can't see into anyone's heart or mind. I'm talking about revealed preference, more than anything else. Yes, fighting is risky and unpleasant. It always is. You make your choice and live with the result.
The choice for a non-citizen isn’t made at the border. I decide whether to go and comply, or to stay home which is the only way to not comply.
Flying over to make trouble at the border is just wasting $1k+ on a plane ticket. I’m sure if I really wanted I could make more difference to legislation by just donating that money to the ACLU or similar.
Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices
#265After the arrest of Marcus Hutchins I have already resolved not to set foot in the USA (unless badly necessary for business :/ ). It is surprising how little international outrage that arrest sparked: if the reasoning of the USA in this case were solid then international travel would halt. You would need to review everything you've done online (the last few years at least but possibly ever) and compare it to the laws…
>That case was one of the primary reasons I excluded the USA as my immigration target and landed in Canada instead (back in 2006 I was in a position where I could choose). >This policy just makes my resolve stronger. Canada (and the UK and Australia) has this same "give me your password" policy [1], too. They've even arrested re-entering Canadian citizens for refusing [2]. So while your decision may have been "noble"…
Note for 2:
"According to an agreed statement of facts, Philippon had $5,000, two phones and traces of cocaine on his bags when he arrived in Halifax."
Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices
#266Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. I can't afford to stand up for my ideals at the border . I expect people (including myself) to stand up for these things, just not at the border . My main way of disagreeing with policies like this is to simply skip any travel to the US. I can't vote, but I can vote with my wallet. But basically saying that people should either accept that their expensive holiday (or job) might go down the toilet, or they ha…
Wouldn't a clean burner phone and clean computer work for you? There are always ways.
I’m not so sure. The point was to stand up for my principles and integrity by refusing to give up my password.
If you do that then whether the phone is empty makes no difference. You’d be detained or deported.
Show them a completely empty phone and an empty Facebook account and you’ll be asked tough questions too.
You basically need to fabricate a whole new persona on social media.
Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices
#267I don't know if it worries my American chums, but I won't visit the USA. As a foreign tourist bringing money into your economy I feel there is a very real risk to my privacy and increasingly my person. I am beginning to favour goods and services from EU where human rights still mean something. Perhaps it doesn't matter to you how the US is perceived overseas, perhaps you don't want my money. Perhaps you don't mind be…
Would you say the same of the citizenry of other states in similar positions, like Russia or Iran?
Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices
#268Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is an argument against representative democracy and assumes that we are already essentially at war with our government. Civil disobedience has a long and successful history in this country. The rule of law still stands. Establishing privacy measures as tool of criminals operating outside the law does no good. TSA/DHS needs to be lobotomized/euthanized. Vote.
The main problem for this is the vast majority of the population is totally okay with these procedures, so one cannot even argue against it nit being representative or it being repressive because if you put it to popular vote, you will not get the result you wish for.
That's not how representative democracy works. We don't put every single issue up to a popular vote, we elect people to advance issues that we care about as voters. If you care about an issue then it's up to you to promote it in the public eye and work with your elected representatives to pass legislation. That may sound idealistic but it is the system we have and it does work.
Vote. Support the ACLU. Support EFF.
Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices
#269I understand the anger, and I understand people wanting to protest. But why on earth would most people here feel the need to travel with a wiped, or factory-defaulted device? I mean, if you have something to hide, or sensitive information, sure, I guess. But it's not like they stop and ask for a password from everyone. This probably applies to 1 in thousands, if not tens of thousands of passengers. What on earth do y…
>What on earth do you gain by going through the elaborate precaution of wiping all your devices
Because it's wrong. Does there have to be another reason?
Maybe you've forgotten, but the constitution is a pretty cool and forward looking document. Although the 4th ammend. (for some crazy reason) doesn't apply at the border, it's a still a pretty ideal principal to protect you from your government.
Read it here: https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/fourth_amendment
Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wouldn't a clean burner phone and clean computer work for you? There are always ways.
I’m not so sure. The point was to stand up for my principles and integrity by refusing to give up my password. If you do that then whether the phone is empty makes no difference. You’d be detained or deported. Show them a completely empty phone and an empty Facebook account and you’ll be asked tough questions too. You basically need to fabricate a whole new persona on social media.
Of course.. if it's "clean-clean"
> You basically need to fabricate a whole new persona on social media.
o-k-a-y. not rocket science. you're not james bond.. it doesn't have to be super crazy.
1) create a new gmail account, sign up for some tech newsletters. 2) create a twitter accounts, sign up for recommended people. 3) do a google search for 'cats and dogs' and download some pics
done.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone's hasn't created a bash script to do something like this.