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A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

nytimes.com

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Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#261

Post by Immortalin »

Immortalin wrote: post #222
will_brown wrote: post #60

I was recently the victim of an armed kidnapping, escaping only by jumping out of my own car from the driver seat while in gear with the gunman in the passenger seat. By the time the police arrived, my attacker escaped in my car and the first words out of the sergeants mouth was “cut the crap, quit jerking us around, what really happened?” Sure enough I was in a jurisdiction that only two months prior was equipped wi…

Force all videos to be streamed live publicly but locked under encryption and the key would only be automatically released afterwards with a smart contract e.g. on court orders or request

Edit: Can someone explain why this comment is being downvoted?

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#262

Post by icebraining »

syshum wrote: post #216
gozur88 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... and that they're punished pretty severely when they betray that trust.

They are? I have been following police abuse for nearly 15 years... I do not see any evidence of that

I think gozur88 is following on the previous statement "I don't feel it's unreasonable to expect..."

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#263

Post by csomar »

So my mind has two explanations:

1. Police officers rarely abuse.

2. Police officers abuse and do not care if they are recorded.

It is not clear which one is which. 1 makes you think we are in a really good shape. 2 makes you think that it is a very bad situation. If it is either 1 or 2, then it can't be something in between, right?

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#264

Post by andrewaylett »

syshum wrote: post #216
gozur88 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... and that they're punished pretty severely when they betray that trust.

They are? I have been following police abuse for nearly 15 years... I do not see any evidence of that

I think -- but am not certain, not being the GP -- that's their point: they don't see it happening, but think that a reasonable person would expect it.

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#265

Post by moomin »

will_brown wrote: post #60

I was recently the victim of an armed kidnapping, escaping only by jumping out of my own car from the driver seat while in gear with the gunman in the passenger seat. By the time the police arrived, my attacker escaped in my car and the first words out of the sergeants mouth was “cut the crap, quit jerking us around, what really happened?” Sure enough I was in a jurisdiction that only two months prior was equipped wi…

Campaign Zero have a list of best practices for police cameras. To the best of my knowledge, no police force follows them (because then they wouldn’t be able to pull stuff like this without repercussions)

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#266

Post by bobbinsbob »

steamer25 wrote: post #230
throwaway000025 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The body cams need to serialize their stream to a special satellite or cell provider, and a chain of auditable custody needs to be preserved at multiple data centers. Police cannot be the masters of their own footage. It needs to exist beyond bribery, lust and international intimidation. It needs to be out of their hands and into a web of trust, as soon as the photons hit the sensors. Then it comes down to jamming, t…

We just need to establish a legal precept that if the body cam footage isn't there to corroborate the cops' story, we assume the worst and they get held accountable for anything a plaintiff is able to plausibly allege. Under that scenario, most cops would become the biggest advocates for e.g., redundancies, backups and transparency.

I know this won't be a popular comment but it never surprises me that this attitude that police should be guilty until proven innocent arrises. It seems to be the default setting. Just like the way everyone hates the police until they need them.

Everything is at some point the fault of the police. It seems like everyone wants the police to do only what they want them to and to be punished if the police do something different.

Now I don't come from the US so can't comment on the problems with the police there and I don't know how the police there are funded but I know from my country that some of the "solutions" stated to hold the police to account would bankrupt the police here, but then I suppose that's the fault of the police as well.

I'm all for bodycams though because at the end of the day when a fabricated complaint comes in (my experience is most of them are) then these can be easily dismissed and hopefully those people actually held to account.

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#267

Post by jopsen »

will_brown wrote: post #60

I was recently the victim of an armed kidnapping, escaping only by jumping out of my own car from the driver seat while in gear with the gunman in the passenger seat. By the time the police arrived, my attacker escaped in my car and the first words out of the sergeants mouth was “cut the crap, quit jerking us around, what really happened?” Sure enough I was in a jurisdiction that only two months prior was equipped wi…

If you're trying to change officer behavior I suggest you start with training manuals and procedures. Then move on to actually train officers for a few years before putting them on the street.

But yeah, it's expensive, so it's more convenient for Americans to be tough on crime.

The fix here is likely political... body cams are a desperate attempt to make things a tiny bit better...

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#268

Post by CJefferson »

RHSeeger wrote: post #238
stretchwithme wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess citizens will have to be the ones wearing body cameras.

I hear about people recording the police with their phones now and again, and it always makes me think of the balance between 1. If I have my phone on and recording, the police can seize it (ie, grab it from me). At best, I'd be able to turn it off, but it's been shown multiple times that they can force me to provide my fingerprint to unlock it. 2. If I turn my phone off (so they need my pin, which they can't force f…

I would love an app which started recording, while making best effort to get the video off my phone and into the cloud ASAP, perhaps sending only sound and a low quality image if bandwidth is low.

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#269

Post by jopsen »

apsec112 wrote: post #231
steamer25 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We just need to establish a legal precept that if the body cam footage isn't there to corroborate the cops' story, we assume the worst and they get held accountable for anything a plaintiff is able to plausibly allege. Under that scenario, most cops would become the biggest advocates for e.g., redundancies, backups and transparency.

This seems to abolish the right to be "innocent until proven guilty". It's always possible to allege a crime that no one can prove didn't happen ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot ), so without a presumption of innocence, the system essentially puts the accused at the mercy of the accuser.

Yeah, dropping "the assumption of regularity" is probably better.

But then this comes down to a jury, and most Americans still seem to trust their police officers. Just saying..

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#270

Post by marvin »

will_brown wrote: post #60

I was recently the victim of an armed kidnapping, escaping only by jumping out of my own car from the driver seat while in gear with the gunman in the passenger seat. By the time the police arrived, my attacker escaped in my car and the first words out of the sergeants mouth was “cut the crap, quit jerking us around, what really happened?” Sure enough I was in a jurisdiction that only two months prior was equipped wi…

It is beyond my comprehension how the New York Times could cite a study on this without mentioning the blatant abuse of body cameras, of which anecdotal evidence like yours shows up _all the time_.
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