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Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

nytimes.com

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Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#261

Post by nkurz »

openasocket wrote: post #253
nkurz wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there are many that share your view, the legal situation is far more complex. While disputed, there is in fact legal precedent for considering "grazing rights" to be private property, with the annual fees being paid for the administration of the program rather than being a rent designed to be equal to the free market value of the grass. Did you know, for example, that grazing rights aren't something that is ava…

Let's go into the Bundy case here. His family has had grazing rights over this land in Nevada for generations. Then in 1993 the federal government restricted access to much of that land to protect an endangered species. They seized the land but he refused to sell, continued grazing, and stopped paying his grazing fees. He could have challenged the seizure in court, but he did not. He could have kept paying his grazin…

He lost his grazing rights by refusing to pay for them.

I've read the filings for Hage, but I'm not as familiar with the details of of the Bundy case. So I presume you are right, that their behavior seems indefensible, but I also presume that "the choice of starting point" has a large effect on the narrative. I'd wager that the Bundy's feel the story starts somewhere earlier, in a way that makes their response seem more reasonable. Here's an update from a couple months ago on the upcoming 3rd retrial of the defendants there: http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-investigat...

I think the tendency so far for juries to repeatedly fail to return guilty verdicts is a pretty good defense of the "unsettled law" theory. Or worse, as the mother/wife in the first video linked suggests, maybe it's a sign that the government treats the legal system itself as part of the punishment rather than a dispassionate means of adjudication. The narrative that actually interests me is most is the extreme conflict between the district and circuit courts. Nominally, they are both "federal" courts, but at least in the Western US, the local district courts are all about states rights and the San Francisco based circuit courts tend to lean heavily in the opposite direction.

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#263

Post by tech2 »

astrodust wrote: post #258
rconti wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In New Zealand they consider the deer to be an invasive species and were actually shooting deer from helicopters . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter-based_hunting_in_Fi...

Why not bring back the giant Moa from the dead and have them crowd out the deer?

Bringing back the Haast Eagle would perhaps be more entertaining.

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#264

Post by red75prime »

b1gnasty wrote: post #190

I spent years working in the forestry industry in Canada planting trees. The first picture says a lot in respect to why the process might be going slowly for them. It is an athletic endeavour that takes efficient tools and the mindset to endure a lot of suffering. It says they are planting 3 million trees a year; that is a tiny amount. I've worked with many planters who have planted over a million trees themselves. H…

I expected tree-planting tractor. Is it hard to automate?

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#265

Post by xexers »

red75prime wrote: post #264
b1gnasty wrote: post #190

I spent years working in the forestry industry in Canada planting trees. The first picture says a lot in respect to why the process might be going slowly for them. It is an athletic endeavour that takes efficient tools and the mindset to endure a lot of suffering. It says they are planting 3 million trees a year; that is a tiny amount. I've worked with many planters who have planted over a million trees themselves. H…

I expected tree-planting tractor. Is it hard to automate?

Agreed. In wide open fields, tree planting tractors should work.

I have personally planted evergreen trees using a machine that was meant for strawberry planting pulled behind a tractor. It's super easy, you sit on a chair and feed the machine the trees like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKKi4Ja97JQ

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#266

Post by RickDT »

delbel wrote: post #230
oh_sigh wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lyme disease isn't passed from human to human so herd immunity is irrelevant.

lyme disease can be passed human to human as a std or the womb from mother to child

Lyme disease is NOT sexually transmitted. https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/faq/index.html

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#267

Post by mar77i »

arnarbi wrote: post #154
ccozan wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the downvotes. Can someone explain? Is a valid question, looking for an answer from a person with more knowledge.

Because it isn't a problem with planting. That's very easy, and people volunteer to do it. When I was a kid (I'm Icelandic) we'd go on field trips and plant hundreds. The problem is keeping the growth alive.

You sound like you doubt the viability of automated and distributed tree planting which may be more statistically significant? I get your point that hundreds may not do, what about hundreds of thousands, then?

Let's agree that we can't know as long as nobody tried. And you're right, we don't have the numbers on how the survivorship ratio in larger magnitudes would behave, it might just shrink to ridiculously small. But then again the soil would be slightly "improved" by a dead sapling, maybe even increasing the chances for another try?

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#268

Post by mar77i »

brohee wrote: post #134
ccozan wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the downvotes. Can someone explain? Is a valid question, looking for an answer from a person with more knowledge.

Your "solution" doesn't solve the "sappling being eaten by free roaming sheep" issue. Not the more complex issue of soil creation.

Trying is nature's way to be abundant.

Just like you shouldn't spay the sheep just because the lamb might be eaten by a wolf.

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#269

Post by openasocket »

nkurz wrote: post #261
openasocket wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's go into the Bundy case here. His family has had grazing rights over this land in Nevada for generations. Then in 1993 the federal government restricted access to much of that land to protect an endangered species. They seized the land but he refused to sell, continued grazing, and stopped paying his grazing fees. He could have challenged the seizure in court, but he did not. He could have kept paying his grazin…

He lost his grazing rights by refusing to pay for them. I've read the filings for Hage, but I'm not as familiar with the details of of the Bundy case. So I presume you are right, that their behavior seems indefensible, but I also presume that "the choice of starting point" has a large effect on the narrative. I'd wager that the Bundy's feel the story starts somewhere earlier, in a way that makes their response seem m…

Those people are being tried for taking up arms against the government, who were trying to seize Bundy's cattle to pay for his $1M fines for illegally grazing. That trial has exactly nothing to do with whether grazing rights are private property. What exactly is the "unsettled law" part? Are you implying an armed standoff with federal officials carrying out a court order is "unsettled law"?
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