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Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

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Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#261

Post by Dylan16807 »

sdiupIGPWEfh wrote: post #260
Dylan16807 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only disagreeing that that "dead weight" even needed to be brought up. I think it's relevant in a discussion of why a firing occurred. (And that overall discussion has a lot of upvote weight.) > No, no, I implicitly trust all communications from corporate authority figures, of course. That's a total deflection. Lack of trust does not let you figure out if any particular statement is true or not. Even dumber than bl…

Lack of trust should mean the burden of proof is on the untrusted. Waiting to fire (not lay off) bad employees en mass at least smells funny, you have people who weren't fired saying it hurt morale, and possible ulterior motives. But no, no hard evidence, only justified lack of trust. I never said that statement was a lie (your word not mine); I have no reason to take their claims at face value either. So by all mean…

You seem actively hostile to the idea of there being bad employees, and I'm not sure why. Such an idea is completely independent of whether corporations are involved at all.

But corporations are usually very reticent to say negative things about people, so for them to specifically call these people out as bad employees at least makes it plausibly true.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#262

Post by sdiupIGPWEfh »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #261
sdiupIGPWEfh wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of trust should mean the burden of proof is on the untrusted. Waiting to fire (not lay off) bad employees en mass at least smells funny, you have people who weren't fired saying it hurt morale, and possible ulterior motives. But no, no hard evidence, only justified lack of trust. I never said that statement was a lie (your word not mine); I have no reason to take their claims at face value either. So by all mean…

You seem actively hostile to the idea of there being bad employees, and I'm not sure why. Such an idea is completely independent of whether corporations are involved at all. But corporations are usually very reticent to say negative things about people, so for them to specifically call these people out as bad employees at least makes it plausibly true.

> You seem actively hostile to the idea of there being bad employees, and I'm not sure why.

Why do you say that? Of course there are (were?) bad employees. If they did indeed fire the worst performers, some of them were quite likely bad employees.

> But corporations are usually very reticent to say negative things about people, so for them to specifically call these people out as bad employees at least makes it plausibly true.

Also plausible that it's misdirection or that they're assholes. =)

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#263

Post by dmode »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #217
dmode wrote: post #49

I know someone who just got fired in this round at Tesla. His manager never communicated to him that he was a bad performer. He was not on a PIP or any performance plans. He was also working on Model 3. One fine morning his manager called him and said this would be his last day. He is a single income earner and was so shocked by this news that he is getting borderline depressed. They offered only 2 weeks of severance…

From the article, some folks are claiming that the firings were around attempts at organizing a union: > Openly pro-union workers were among those fired this week. Some believe they were targeted.

He works in a white collar job. So, unlikely to be "pro union".

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#264

Post by ckastner »

_Tev wrote: post #248
wpietri wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they are regularly burning out key executives, then I'd say we should definitely be reading into that. That's a sign that the operation isn't sustainable in the long term, or at least will plateau at lower levels of performance than it otherwise could hit.

So the startup mode will have to end? How is that surprising?

Because it's been in this mode for 14 years already.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#265

Post by danmaz74 »

dmode wrote: post #49

I know someone who just got fired in this round at Tesla. His manager never communicated to him that he was a bad performer. He was not on a PIP or any performance plans. He was also working on Model 3. One fine morning his manager called him and said this would be his last day. He is a single income earner and was so shocked by this news that he is getting borderline depressed. They offered only 2 weeks of severance…

No notice and 2 weeks severance? Moreover, I guess, no health insurance while looking for work? Wow, I don't think any other rich country could find this acceptable.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#266

Post by danmaz74 »

wooter wrote: post #190
mcny wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I read about pip, I keep going back to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11299310 I think even if we had regulations and requirements like that in the US, it would quickly devolve into a charade. Basically, a six month pip would be the same as a six month notice with the option to fire you any time anyway.

Dumb law IMO. I like at-will employment. I would be pissed if my company was paying 14k on my behalf for something so unnecessary. I can budget my education much better than the government, thanks.

How can you budget your retraining if you get same-day notice and just 2 weeks severance?

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#267

Post by thegayngler »

tankenmate wrote: post #236
thegayngler wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree they are scapegoats for bad management. They should start firing the CEO. He over promises and then grossly under delivers. Making people work in bad conditions will turn good people into bad employees/DEAD weight. They were DEAD weight because people need rest and time away from work to maintain optimal performance.

You seem so sure of your conclusions without any evidence (if you do have evidence then please provide it). I firmly believe in workers rights. I also firmly believe in evidence. California has some of the most employee friendly employment laws in the US. Germany some of the most in the EU. As long as these employees have reasonable severance and Tesla followed the law I don't see much room to complain. If however th…

I'm not so sure of anything. That's the way it looks to me from reading the article. The way it looks to me from reading the article is that these employees were labeled as underperforming simply so the company could avoid triggering any sort of legal scrutiny. I could be totally wrong. It's likely that I'm not considering people walked in without any PEP or any notice and were let go even according to another poster on HN.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#268

Post by donarb »

dmode wrote: post #263
inferiorhuman wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article, some folks are claiming that the firings were around attempts at organizing a union: > Openly pro-union workers were among those fired this week. Some believe they were targeted.

He works in a white collar job. So, unlikely to be "pro union".

There are plenty of white collar unions. Society of Professional Engineering Employees in Aerospace (SPEEA) for one.
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