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Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

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Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#261

Post by nostrebored »

phry wrote: post #248
nostrebored wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cite your sources, because you're objectively wrong. Stop saying that people literally advocate for death. This is something that has happened in the past, something that will probably happen in the future, and being a sensationalist about it just makes you an asshole.

oops it was laura loomer, apologies for mixing up my moronic racists. the line between the two is thin to the point of being non-existent regardless.

Right, so you're saying that some other woman is a white nationalist, therefore Laura Southern is? It kind of sounds like you are smearing her because you disagree with her

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#262

Post by syshum »

door wrote: post #259
syshum wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Patreon is not a government body. Ok, and. Do you believe only governments are a threat to free speech? Free Speech is a concept that every person, every company, every government should work to up hold. While governments can and have been the source of censorship, that is not the only source. Today free speech is under massive assault not by Government but by Society at large, society it seems have lost all respec…

no one is saying you can't say things, they are just saying you can't say things in certain places. there have ALWAYS been regulations, both legal and market, on what you can say on tv, radio, in newspapers. 50 years ago you could write your pro-nazi holocaust denying op ed but it isnt a violation of free speech when the new york times refused to publish it. now we have large mainstream internet communities like redd…

> 50 years ago you could write your pro-nazi holocaust denying op ed but it isnt a violation of free speech when the new york times refused to publish it.

The New York times also never publicly advertised themselves as a "Free Speech Platform" that was "open to all persons and views"

>they are saying that horrible things shouldn't be said on a massive platform that millions of people see

Well one, it is clear you yourself are not a supporter of Freedom of Speech.

Two, so do you believe that a massive platform with millions of people should be forced to sensor speech you find to be "horrible"

One of the things I always question when people start classify speech as "horrible" is who subjective it is. For example I think it is "horrible" that the christian region is given prominent placement in society. I believe the views of the Christian Region to be "horrible" and I consider indoctrinating children into said religion to be abuse. Would you support a massive platform banning all references to Christianity? And if they did would support them calling themselves "Supporters of Free Speech" while doing so?

//and before the Christians get all butt hurt, I oppose any and all organized religions, I think they are all bullshit. Christianity however is the most popular religion in America so I use it to highlight my point

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#263

Post by specialist »

azernik wrote: post #229
dna_polymerase wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no "getting it right" in free speech. Either you allow free speech or you don't, if you are keeping one controversial thing but kick out the other you gave up on free speech. You can't kick someone out because you think its right and claim allowing free spech.

That is a very US-centric view of free speech. In many other (developed, democratic) countries, a lot of the shit 8chan does would be viewed as incitement to violence, hate speech, and/or invasion of privacy. The absolutist conception of free speech in the US is an outlier.

It's a very libertarian (puerile) view of free speech. The rest of us understand principles like civility, that your rights stop where mine begin, don't yell "fire!" in a crowded theater, balancing rights and responsibilities, and that hatespeech is a form of assault.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#264

Post by scottLobster »

syshum wrote: post #258
scottLobster wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't, it's an exercise in property rights and a reminder that most of the "internet" as we know it, including this very board, is private property. Barring a legally binding contract or criminal activity, no one is under any obligation to protect the civil rights of those on their property. If I wanted to hold a "whites only" house party and turn away minorities at the door, I can do that. If I refuse to allow…

Sigh... Such a predictable response I should have address this in my original comment Sure the Right of association, and I suppose property rights give them the legal ability to this. However most of these platform publicly and loudly proclaim themselves as "Free Speech Platform", open to all points of view, open to all. Even in the public responses to the outcry over the bannings on Patreon their first statement was…

Well fine, sue them for false advertising. Or if that's untenable than let's get a law passed that says if a business claims, as part of its marketing, to support a right then they have a legal obligation to civilly enforce said right at their place(s) of business. I'd be on board with that.

As for the rest, it would appear I'm thinking more from an (American) legal perspective and the implications of various measures that might be taken, whereas you're thinking from a more philosophical perspective. If you have a way to prevent "societal sanction" without violating other rights in the process then I suggest you find a way to get nominated for a Nobel.

It's all well and good to state that everyone should listen to everyone else and that not to do so is a violation of free speech. I'm just not sure how that goes beyond theory. Even in the most benign case, that of time, people have to sleep. Am I violating someone's right to free speech if I refuse to listen on account of exhaustion? Would my old college dormitory's "quiet hours" be considered "societal sanction"?

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#265

Post by AlwaysBCoding »

AmIFirstToThink wrote: post #148

barf. yuck. I found that article physically repulsive. Patreon, if you are listening, don't buy into all the power that the article wants to shower upon you. They want you to influence your exercise of that power, and they want you to use that power to do their bidding in limiting free debate of ideas. Patrons and the person that they support, that's it, that's all there is to it. The silver coin is being given by ha…

They've already fucked it up.

Here's an hour long interview with Patreon's CEO, Jack Conte, where he goes through some ridiculous mental gymnastics trying to justify why it's ok he is kicking conservative journalists off his platform.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofpbDgCj9rw

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#266

Post by Cogito »

s73ver wrote: post #251
Banthum wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that those rules are enforced energetically and stringently against dissidents, but are often not enforced or enforced in a lax way for orthodox activists. E.g. Anita Sarkeesian publicly calling one of her online political opponents a shithead and garbage human from the stage at a conference. He was sitting in the audience quietly. Result: he (not she) gets barred from returning on the grounds that his p…

I'm sorry, but your examples are quite out of context. Read the story about Sarkeesian's thing. Those people were there specifically for harassment. I cannot be upset at her for calling him out, and I cannot be upset that he was banned. As for the other one, you're gonna have to provide proof.

Not that it's worth wading too far into this, but there is no good reason to believe those people were there specifically for harassment.

For one, if they were there to harass, you would expect them to have done some harassing. I have seen no examples of that. The only possible thing that could be construed as harassing behaviour was them being there in the first place - and I don't think that's a very high bar to set for harassment.

I mean, you can watch the videos[0] of the event yourself. None of it looked particularly harassing to me, until Sarkeesian started attacking the audience.

Not sure what exactly you're referring to when you say 'the story' but the articles I've seen don't seem to paint the same picture ([1] for example).

[0] First video I found, shows the whole talk. The point in question comes about 2:30 into the video.

https://youtu.be/XwcRc5LuElA?t=151

[1] https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/3946095/youtuber-sargon-of-akk...

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#267

Post by coredog64 »

specialist wrote: post #263
azernik wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a very US-centric view of free speech. In many other (developed, democratic) countries, a lot of the shit 8chan does would be viewed as incitement to violence, hate speech, and/or invasion of privacy. The absolutist conception of free speech in the US is an outlier.

It's a very libertarian (puerile) view of free speech. The rest of us understand principles like civility, that your rights stop where mine begin, don't yell "fire!" in a crowded theater, balancing rights and responsibilities, and that hatespeech is a form of assault.

Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater and immediate incitement of violence are not allowed in the US either.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#268

Post by myth_drannon »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #107

Patreon is starting to take off for open source, too, which is great. I set one up and it offsets a good deal of the infrastructure costs for my projects. Many FOSS Patreons have pretty low figures - please go looking for them and support your tools!

how do I find them?

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#269

Post by FireBeyond »

scottLobster wrote: post #249
fvdessen wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can an American business serve "whites only" ? Are you advocating that American businesses should have the right to restrict service based on skin color ?

No and no, I'm not advocating anything of the sort. My point is simply that property holders, at least in America, are under no obligation to enforce rights. They are under obligation to not commit crimes, and as a nation we've decided that a business refusing service on the basis of skin color is a crime. Refusing to rebroadcast or support the opinions of someone you don't like is at present not a crime, and I since…

> So should I, as a gun owner, demand that I should be allowed to carry my firearm anywhere, on anyone's property; and claim that for them to deny me that right is a violation of my 2nd amendment rights? I'm pro-gun and even to me that sounds crazy, as it would to many pro-gunners who are usually big on personal property rights.

There are many, many gun owners who argue exactly that. That "gun free zones" are anti-Constitutional, be those zones publicly owned, or privately owned.

This shouldn't be news to you.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#270

Post by WesleyLivesay »

savanaly wrote: post #17
drewg123 wrote: post #16

Unless I'm missing something, they seem to only have a monthly contribution model. There are many times where I find a content creator helpful (for example a video tutorial on how to fix my broken washing machine), and I'd like to reward them. But I don't want to do it monthly, as I'll probably never watch another thing from them. So I'd like to be able to easily leave a one-time tip. Can Patreon do this, and it's ju…

Sign up then immediately cancel? One month's payment should go through.

I just want to correct your comment unless anybody else sees this.

By default this is not how Patreon works. For most creators you are not charged until the end of the month, so if you sign up on August 2nd you are not charged any money, and the money doesn't go to the creator, until September 1st.

They do have a new setting for Patreon campaigns that lets the creators change this, but many have not.

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