Earlier quoted context omitted.
Governments alone won't. Nor will markets alone.
Neither will a combination of the two, bury I think it might come closer. I think the free market people have some legitimate fears; a government that tasks itself with "fair redistribution of wealth" is pretty easily abused. "Fairness" lends itself to loose interpretations which target particular groups, for example, all of the white/male privilege rhetoric in the last decade. I don't particularly want my wealth red…
My own private basic income
261–270 of 280 posts
Re: My own private basic income
#262Wow I am astounded that all the comments so far are trying to tear down this person and what he is saying, and very transparently because there seems to be something threatening about this idea that he got where he has through luck. Why do people find this idea so threatening? I got where I am today due to luck. I did work hard. But I know other people who work hard too. Who are just as capable. They just didn't get…
Re: My own private basic income
#263Property tax is $15 per month for a house in South Bend, IN? lol. Capital gains is taxed lower than income? Wrong ("it depends"). I stopped reading there.
Re: My own private basic income
#264What I got out of this was the suggestion to fund Basic Income by taxing unearned income. I'd like to read more on how the numbers would actually work out. If that were the only funding source of BI, then how much impact would that be on the rich, and how much benefit would that be for the people that could use BI?
There is no such thing as "unearned income". Assets are risky.
https://www.irs.gov/publications/p17/ch31.html#en_US_2016_pu...
Re: My own private basic income
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
Existential crisis and mental break down are not remotely the same thing. And noting that he seems to simply feel he somehow doesn't deserve this or feels guilty and his article is also not really well backed is a valid criticism. This piece looks to me like someone venting emotionally about their guilt at feeling they don't really deserve more than others. This is not really a good argument for creating basic income…
> And noting that he seems to simply feel he somehow doesn't deserve this At no point in the article does he say that. He simply stated he was lucky. He was born in a country that made it such that he would NEVER be able to end up like the workers he encountered. Thats absolutely true. That makes him (and you) lucky and certainly more successful relative to them. > his article is also not really well backed is a vali…
Then you come in and mirror my language and start off with "guy..." I am an active participant on HN and open about my gender. You referring to me as a guy tells me you don't actually recognize me or know who I am. It also tells me you didn't so much as click through to my profile. It is trivially easy to determine my gender and you didn't do that much. That means you know literally NOTHING about me, thus all statements that follow your description of me as a guy are made up out of thin air. They aren't any kind of valid criticism with any kind of basis in actual facts.
As for UBI, I am not closed minded about it. I am willing to consider a good argument for it. In fact, I would love to see a good argument for it. But I don't think an experiment like the one being done by Sam Altman tells us anything useful. It is obvious on the face of it that if a small subset of people get extra funds for a specified period or time, they will tend to do better than most people around them. This is not real world conditions for what will happen if UBI becomes a reality.
I think there are much better proxies to look at for trying to infer what will happen with UBI and these are real world examples. This includes things like what happens when someone wins the lottery (2/3s are bankrupt within 5 years) and actual historical efforts to share and share alike (communism, which was supposed to be a peasant paradise, but was a disaster). I have had pertinent classes in things like Social Psychology for trying to gauge what is likely to work with actual human beings in actual reality, not some experiment. I also write about my thoughts on UBI and related matters here:
Re: My own private basic income
#266Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the US, the vast majority of gross national income goes to labor not capital. FWIW.
Of course, there's also a lot more laborers than capitalists. By orders of magnitude. How about per capita for each group?
153 million laborers vs
122 million stockholders
Pretty close! And that's just stockholders. There are, of course, many other forms of capital.1. https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS12000000
2. http://www.gallup.com/poll/190883/half-americans-own-stocks-...
Re: My own private basic income
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
The average citizen values YOUR garbage collector far less than they value Oprah. They value their own, certainly, but that value is reflected by the enormous sums we collectively pay to have our garbage removed. The garbage industry is worth a lot more than Oprah. You also pay (indirectly) your garbage worker a lot more than you pay (indirectly) Oprah, so things might be working out closer to how you value them than…
I still can't get my head around the logic that a garbage collector gets paid next to nothing relative to someone who is paid millions to talk into a microphone and the reasoning is that the latter "provides more value". "They provide more value" just seems like a very partial catch phrase to make this all look less absurd than it actually is.
Garbage collecting is not winner take all. No single garbage collector can corner the market because the role doesn't require unique talent in the same way that being a famous talk show host does. Oprah's value is her unique personality, brand, style, mannerisms, business savvy, etc rather than any sort of utility (like removing up your rotting trash) that she may or may not provide.
Re: My own private basic income
#268Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Generally life is an IQ test and rewards those who make optimal choices WRT events in their life. Do you think that if you'd been born in a slum you would have a decent chance of winning in the IQ test & optimal choice events in your life? I would imagine that almost anyone reading these comments has been unbelievably fortunate to be born into relatively wealthy circumstances & had things like "books" around to hel…
Being born in a slum more than likely means that your parents failed the IQ test, which is a strong signal about your IQ.
Perhaps you failed the IQ test too?
Re: My own private basic income
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course, there's also a lot more laborers than capitalists. By orders of magnitude. How about per capita for each group?
BLS says about 153 million Americans are currently working(1). Gallup says 52% of American Adults are invested in the stock market(2). There are about 235 million adult Americans. 52% of that is 122 million. 153 million laborers vs 122 million stockholders Pretty close! And that's just stockholders. There are, of course, many other forms of capital. 1. https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS12000000 2. http://www.gallup.…
Re: My own private basic income
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course, there's also a lot more laborers than capitalists. By orders of magnitude. How about per capita for each group?
BLS says about 153 million Americans are currently working(1). Gallup says 52% of American Adults are invested in the stock market(2). There are about 235 million adult Americans. 52% of that is 122 million. 153 million laborers vs 122 million stockholders Pretty close! And that's just stockholders. There are, of course, many other forms of capital. 1. https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS12000000 2. http://www.gallup.…
A worker owning a handful of shares of stock isn't a capitalist, or even petit bourgeoisie.