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Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

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Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#261

Post by TeMPOraL »

ShabbosGoy wrote: post #241
TeMPOraL wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> someone who has a reasonable expectation of my putting aside whatever I'm doing to consider your request--then this response would be reasonable. (But even then you have to respect the other person's time.) The remark in parenthesis is pretty important here. A lot of people seem to feel entitled to your full and immediate attention 24/7 just because they're family or know you for a while. I suppose GP feels that to…

> I even translated PG's "Maker's Schedule, Manager's Schedule" just so I could show it to my mom (and some other) in order to explain why I don't respond well to being asked to do trivial errands at random times during the day. I had not even thought of doing this, it's brilliant. I often run into this issue with my mother when I visit, even though I am her adult son. I will certainly try this.

It was important for me back in my university days, when I was still living in family home. Now, when I visit my mother, I just block off that chunk of a day (preferably the last part of the day, because conversations with her and my younger brother are so interesting I stay hours longer than I planned...).

Anyway, for people from Poland who might find the essay useful, here's the translation: http://esejepg.pl/eseje/makersschedule.html. There are also some others (in particular, I wanted to have "What You'll Wish You'd Known" available too, to show to my younger siblings).

(I'd also love to get some help with translating more of the essays. After some personal issues back some 4 years ago I lost the drive to continue the work; since then, however, I've been told those translations are actually being printed out and given to people in some business classes, which sounds like they're useful to someone.)

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#262

Post by StavrosK »

Schwolop wrote: post #218
StavrosK wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just say "ooohhh, I'd love to, but I have an excuse :(". Most people don't get it, but they're confused long enough for me to escape.

That's almost as useful as "Look! Over there! A distraction!"

Very useful indeed.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#263

Post by bitJericho »

wccrawford wrote: post #258
manmal wrote: post #91

For anybody learning to say "no" currently - learn to say "no" gently and kindly. I'm quite bad at this myself. I let people impose stuff on me, and once I have had enough, I have a very rude way of telling people off. One reason for this rudeness is a fear that I will lose something when declining (e.g. a relationship or money), so I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place - I don't want to help, but I feel I sho…

My wife and her aunt just had a conversation about this recently. It boiled down to this phrase in the end: "That's not going to work for me." Whenever she has to tell someone "no" and knows they're likely to argue, that's the answer she gives. When they ask why, she just repeats it until they realize that the answer is obvious but would be rude to say. Personally, I think it's still rude, but it works for her in way…

You can say no and still help with a solution.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#264

Post by qrbLPHiKpiux »

wccrawford wrote: post #258
manmal wrote: post #91

For anybody learning to say "no" currently - learn to say "no" gently and kindly. I'm quite bad at this myself. I let people impose stuff on me, and once I have had enough, I have a very rude way of telling people off. One reason for this rudeness is a fear that I will lose something when declining (e.g. a relationship or money), so I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place - I don't want to help, but I feel I sho…

My wife and her aunt just had a conversation about this recently. It boiled down to this phrase in the end: "That's not going to work for me." Whenever she has to tell someone "no" and knows they're likely to argue, that's the answer she gives. When they ask why, she just repeats it until they realize that the answer is obvious but would be rude to say. Personally, I think it's still rude, but it works for her in way…

Being able to say no without saying no is only learned through experience. It took me a while to learn how to do it. It sort of follows the 5 aspects of death: denial, frustration, anger, sadness, acceptance. You must pass all.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#265

Post by gerbilly »

StavrosK wrote: post #155
lomnakkus wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm off my rocker, but isn't this exactly what "white lies"[1] were invented for? You don't actually always have to be 100% truthful with everyone. (That will also serve you badly in other social situations, BTW.) [1] Point being that even if people eventually find out that you did tell them a "white lie", they'll actually usually be very understanding because that's the societal norm and they realize that you…

I just say "ooohhh, I'd love to, but I have an excuse :(". Most people don't get it, but they're confused long enough for me to escape.

I would, but I don't want to.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#266

Post by Alex3917 »

linksnapzz wrote: post #67
77pt77 wrote: post #45

>Read the life of a great scientist like Agassiz. Was he forever at the world’s beck and call? Not for a single day. Agassiz refers to "Louis Agassiz" a creationist scientific racist that believed the races had been created by God in separate events. Not the best example to use. Edit: He believed this in the late 1800 and the author of the submitted article apparently considered him a "great scientist" as late as 192…

Agassiz, who is still remembered for his contributions to geology & fossil taxonomy, can't possibly be a great scientist as he committed wrongthink over a century ago. Eventually, the only great scientists will be ones who are still available to have their opinions policed by modern progressives.

> Eventually, the only great scientists will be ones who are still available to have their opinions policed by modern progressives.

Progressives have historically believed in government transparency, and modern ones generally support infrastructure investments, but there isn't really any social agenda. You may be thinking of liberals.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#267

Post by qrbLPHiKpiux »

coldtea wrote: post #239
skosch wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: when people do this to me, I instinctively assume that the true reason is laziness. On top of that, I feel alienated – what, you think you're so important that you can brush me off just like that, and I'm not even worthy being given a reason? Be careful with this one. It's very much possible to state a reason and still express that you won't change your mind on the matter. Although it is more effort, yo…

> Counterpoint: when people do this to me, I instinctively assume that the true reason is laziness. What about the laziness of not handling the matter yourself? Talk about entitlement!

No one owes an explanation to anyone.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#268

Post by Natanael_L »

defined wrote: post #215
lomnakkus wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm off my rocker, but isn't this exactly what "white lies"[1] were invented for? You don't actually always have to be 100% truthful with everyone. (That will also serve you badly in other social situations, BTW.) [1] Point being that even if people eventually find out that you did tell them a "white lie", they'll actually usually be very understanding because that's the societal norm and they realize that you…

My memory is so terrible that I dare not tell even white lies, so I am forced to tell the truth, preferably in a way that preserves the requester's dignity, not just a blunt "no." The truth is usually along the lines of "Sorry, I would like to be able to help, but I have too much on my plate right now and more keeps being added to it every day."

Mark Twain — 'If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.'

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#269

Post by skosch »

Aeolun wrote: post #200
skosch wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: when people do this to me, I instinctively assume that the true reason is laziness. On top of that, I feel alienated – what, you think you're so important that you can brush me off just like that, and I'm not even worthy being given a reason? Be careful with this one. It's very much possible to state a reason and still express that you won't change your mind on the matter. Although it is more effort, yo…

If the true reason is laziness, isn't that still a perfectly valid reason? I just don't particularly feel like moving your damn couch right now, I'd rather watch Netflix. When I'm imposing on your time it's only normal that you get a chance to say 'no', whatever the reason for it.

You know what, I put that poorly. You're absolutely right, laziness is perfectly valid.

There's nevertheless a psychological difference between (variations on) "sorry dude, too many things on my plate this week" and "No.". There's nothing about the former anyone one can argue with, but it shows that you value basic human mutual understanding.

If the couch-owner truly lacks self-awareness, to the point where they constantly badger you with unreasonable requests (we all know that one guy), then a "No." isn't going to enlighten them either – in that case, you do them a favour by respectfully but explicitly informing them that their request is unreasonable.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#270

Post by skosch »

coldtea wrote: post #239
skosch wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: when people do this to me, I instinctively assume that the true reason is laziness. On top of that, I feel alienated – what, you think you're so important that you can brush me off just like that, and I'm not even worthy being given a reason? Be careful with this one. It's very much possible to state a reason and still express that you won't change your mind on the matter. Although it is more effort, yo…

> Counterpoint: when people do this to me, I instinctively assume that the true reason is laziness. What about the laziness of not handling the matter yourself? Talk about entitlement!

True! I regret the way I put that.
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