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India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

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Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#261

Post by bahularora »

avar wrote: post #16

> Unfortunately, in many places, it’s not > feasible to lay down sewer pipes or build > treatment facilities. [...] But giving > people access to toilets isn’t enough. You > also have to persuade them to use the > toilets. I can't find it now, but there was a news video making the rounds a year or two ago that showed that this problem is much more fundamental than that. It showed a Indians in a tiny village who were…

There are many things that are unbelievable you would be surprised, POTUS and many educated Americans not believing in Climate change. believing that they are waging a war on terror, religious/racial discrimination existing in modern society.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#262

Post by keypress »

Kluny wrote: post #249
anigbrowl wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help observing that it's very common for men to take a leak on the street, especially if they've been drinking. It's not the most sanitary habit but it's not especially harmful either, and I don't feel anything different about a woman squatting to take a leak either. Public defecation, though, I have no hesitation about shaming someone for unless it's some sort of emergency.

Public urination is illegal in most places, you get a fine. I wouldn't call it common, I'd call it something that happens in alleyways, under cover of darkness, and only when the man in question is desperate and judgement impaired. In the city, at least. In the country everyone pees when they have to, gender whatever.

Most places?

In the UK it is, but my bladder/prostate totally gives up, and in that situation it's a choice between a public place or my trousers.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#263

Post by jdietrich »

abandonliberty wrote: post #103
avar wrote: post #16

> Unfortunately, in many places, it’s not > feasible to lay down sewer pipes or build > treatment facilities. [...] But giving > people access to toilets isn’t enough. You > also have to persuade them to use the > toilets. I can't find it now, but there was a news video making the rounds a year or two ago that showed that this problem is much more fundamental than that. It showed a Indians in a tiny village who were…

This is an area for innovation. Managing change/altering beliefs are extremely difficult. To help iron deficiency in Cambodians, they were encouraged to cook with iron ingots. No one used them. So they shaped the ingot into a lotus flower. Dice. Cultural investigation showed that fish were symbols of luck, health, and happiness. Fish-shaped ingots worked out! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_iron_fish

Rory Sutherland often makes the point that advertising agencies are uniquely equipped to solve many complex social problems. They are, by some considerable margin, the best in the world at persuasion and behavioural change. The minds that persuaded a billion people to smoke cigarettes are well equipped to persuade people to dig proper latrines and wash their hands.

The medical and logistical response to the recent ebola outbreak was astonishingly swift and efficient, but there were clearly major deficiencies in public communication. Perhaps there's an unrecognised need for "Advertisers Without Borders"?

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#264

Post by keypusher »

avar wrote: post #16

> Unfortunately, in many places, it’s not > feasible to lay down sewer pipes or build > treatment facilities. [...] But giving > people access to toilets isn’t enough. You > also have to persuade them to use the > toilets. I can't find it now, but there was a news video making the rounds a year or two ago that showed that this problem is much more fundamental than that. It showed a Indians in a tiny village who were…

The problem is that is a billion people, and they aren't the only ones who live next to that river. It's the people upstream who are also defecating into the river that are likely causing them to get sick. And digging a hole in the field for the village to go in can be a bad idea because that area becomes a breeding ground for all kinds of bad stuff. This isn't like when you went camping and pooped in the bushes one time. This is millions of people, every day, for decades. The waste builds up unless it's taken care of, and putting your waste into the river where it will be washed away starts to look like a viable strategy. Maybe these people aren't as dumb as you think, they just live in a very different environment and didn't have your education.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#265

Post by keypress »

up_and_up wrote: post #121
avar wrote: post #16

> Unfortunately, in many places, it’s not > feasible to lay down sewer pipes or build > treatment facilities. [...] But giving > people access to toilets isn’t enough. You > also have to persuade them to use the > toilets. I can't find it now, but there was a news video making the rounds a year or two ago that showed that this problem is much more fundamental than that. It showed a Indians in a tiny village who were…

> But somehow the problem persists, it's unbelievable. Before you get too high and mighty there.... Not long ago (1996) here in the USA, they were still removing all the outhouses that had been positioned directly over fresh-water streams all over Appalachia. See "Straight Piping". [1] Its easy to judge poor people in other countries, we forget how recently we were (and maybe still are) making similar mistakes. [1] -…

I live in a small hamlet that uses a small treatment plant that ultimately runs off into a river. Treatment plants have gotten better, but after talking to residents, they are blissfully unaware of dos and don'ts of septic like systems. They are totally ignorant. Information is at their fingertips. I'm now worried about micro-fibres - from clothing etc. Most pollutants are avoidable but there are many available and it's easy to forget/ignore. Additives, cleaners etc. Not sure the swans are that impressed.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#266

Post by JulianMorrison »

keypress wrote: post #256
avar wrote: post #16

> Unfortunately, in many places, it’s not > feasible to lay down sewer pipes or build > treatment facilities. [...] But giving > people access to toilets isn’t enough. You > also have to persuade them to use the > toilets. I can't find it now, but there was a news video making the rounds a year or two ago that showed that this problem is much more fundamental than that. It showed a Indians in a tiny village who were…

It's a little more complicated than digging a hole in the ground. You have to ensure you don't poison the water table with run off or monsoons. Protect them from pests. Aerobic composting is simple when liquids are removed (urine separator and no black water). Pumping air through toilet chambers can help remove smells. I live in the UK, and as I age, I seem to be loosing control of certain physical faculties. And we…

The UK used to have public toilets. Then it had Conservatives. Councils can't fund facilities with money they no longer have. "But you can use the loo in Costa" says the Tory. Nope, not if you're homeless or poor or it's after closing time.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#267

Post by jdietrich »

mjevans wrote: post #84
staticassertion wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first or second chapter of Diffusion of Innovation covers a case where a health organization official tried to convince people to boil their water. No one did it. The concept of "germs" was so foreign to them, and their beliefs about water were already so ingrained. It was a complete failure. It seems obvious to say "if you drink dirty water you will get sick" but you're assuming that people can make so many conn…

That's a case for bending the truth. Find out how to explain it in their existing culture. Curses, uncleanness, etc. There's probably SOMETHING responsible for misfortune, death, and disease. Claim that there is a method which helps battle this, it involves purifying the water with a strong fire for this duration of an hour-glass. Once it is cooled it is, for a short time, safe to use.

Tell the truth, but dress it in marketing. Use the same tricks that advertisers use to sell damned near everything to damned near everyone.

Shitting in the river will make you sick, but it's also the low-class thing to do, it's unfashionable, it's unattractive to the opposite sex, it makes you look foolish. Toilets are respectable, they're modern, they're stylish, they're a status symbol. You don't have to invoke superstition to create a taboo.

If you want people to boil their water, just provide subsidised tea and let the addictive properties of caffeine do the work for you.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#268

Post by zuron7 »

thetruthseeker1 wrote: post #157
avar wrote: post #16

> Unfortunately, in many places, it’s not > feasible to lay down sewer pipes or build > treatment facilities. [...] But giving > people access to toilets isn’t enough. You > also have to persuade them to use the > toilets. I can't find it now, but there was a news video making the rounds a year or two ago that showed that this problem is much more fundamental than that. It showed a Indians in a tiny village who were…

Part of the problem is also because of lack of education. Unlike in the west, literacy rate is not as high, hence they miss out on the knowledge and awareness that can come from being able to read. But, India is making progress even on that front, so eventually I think both these improvements will complement one another nicely and things may be much different 10 years down the line. I am originally from India(now I l…

I think this has to do more with the fact that Apples do not naturally grow in most of India. And I wouldn't doubt it if the whole An Apple a day was started by the US to help their agricultural exports. Westernisation of our palates has killed/reduced a lot of local foods. For example in the state of Karnataka, Wheat was unheard of a few decades ago, but now it's the primary consumed grain. Millets are making a comeback as wheat is unsustainable to grow in such an area. Responsible businesses are what we need.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#269

Post by Maken »

Cyph0n wrote: post #229
tropo wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China, India, Korea, and Japan all used pig toilets. In some places, usage was 22.7% as of 2003. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_toilet

That's disgusting honestly. Doesn't that pose a health hazard to the people who consume that meat? I don't eat pork so I never knew how filthy pigs can be!

Feeding shit and trash to pigs, and other animals like chickens or rabbits, used to be a common custom in European countries as well. It's not as terrible as it sounds, since for the most time these animals don't get infected by human germs, effectively acting as a kind of walking antibiotic bag, and therefore it's an acceptable way of disposing of residues and getting some extra food at the same time.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#270

Post by AnthonBerg »

shard972 wrote: post #245
tomaskafka wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out how we, the 'wise modern civilization' splash all our chemicals and shit into the rivers and oceans, and then eat fish from there. I bet we will be looked at as 'these savage guys were totally dumb, look at them, it's unbelievable' about 50 - 150 years later. Also, you americans take away your babies from your mothers after few weeks, putting them to a cold hearted institutions, making them frustrated for l…

I get your point but at least you get the 1% GDP gain, what upside is there to shitting in your drinking water? It's few steps closer?

It's close, and the river washes everything away. You don't know about or understand the rest. How would you?, nobody thought to tell you. Life is difficult.
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