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Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

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Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#261

Post by muse900 »

anovikov wrote: post #24

LOL it is the other way around, cities become most expensive because developers flock there and spend cash. This happens now in Limassol, Cyprus: crowds of developers, most having their own startups, started to flock there since 3 years ago from Russia, Belarus and Ukraine - it was always a country to keep offshore companies/accounts, so every rich developer in ex-USSR already been there and knew the place, but since…

I agree with your comment, as there is a factor that increases the cost in the cities where developers live in.

Bringing up Limassol though, is not a valid argument. Limassol on its own has had a lot of rich people from Russia moving there permanently and in the past few years a lot of development went on there. The Marina or the pier etc makes it feel like you are in Miami of some sorts, so that definitely bumps the prices up and it has nothing to do with developers going there. Most rich people there didn't make money from tech but from illegal sources.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#262

Post by mattnewton »

adamors wrote: post #36
prostoalex wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a fantastic developer in Ukraine, India or China and have very limited needs (compared to a guy with a family and kids), your disposable monthly income net of taxes, rent and commute expenses is still likely to be higher in Silicon Valley than Ukraine, India or China. A rational decision then would be to move to Silicon Valley arbitraging the costs as much as you can (living with roommates, commuting by Cal…

Moving to the US is not a rational decision in 2017.

Well, it really depends on where you are moving from, doesn't it?

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#263

Post by pizza234 »

sporkenfang wrote: post #219
ssambros wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is relatively easy to get a software engineer job in Germany and couple of years later get a residency, so no, residencies are not the only reason people moved to Cyprus.

If a person theoretically spoke French and English but had not yet studied German, would that make such a leap more difficult?

Going through the whoishiring.io job offers, Germany has a comparatively high number of job ads written in German (even for remote positions).

This is very interesting, as it may point to a less international work culture (although this is in the process of changing), which this translates to a "possibly yes" answer to your question. Of course, whoishiring.io may not reflect accurately real world, still, I don't think it's random.

Answer of the type "N people work here in Germany without speaking german" are not correct answers, since they don't imply a comparison (the question is comparative).

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#264

Post by [deleted] »

rmc wrote: post #253
Anderkent wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is such a weird American phenomenon, the whole roommate thing I think you're just sheltered; in every country in Europe that I lived in or had friends live in (Poland, UK, Portugal), students and young professionals flatshare. Or live with their parents, but it comes out to the same thing. If you're not already independently rich, you can't afford a single bedroom flat on your own. The simple fact is that a tw…

Yes, but when Americans (e.g. college students) talk about "roommates" they mean they share a bedroom ! Literal room mates

[deleted]

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#265

Post by StavrosK »

anovikov wrote: post #106
StavrosK wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you need a visa to go to Greece? Cypriot citizens can definitely travel to Greece with just their ID cards, but I'm not sure about immigrants.

Of course, because they are EU citizens. All EU citizens can travel freely. But immigrants need a visa since Cyprus is not in Schengen. This is the case with all non-Schengen EU countries, like, immigrants living in London need a visa to go to Paris, but a Romanian doesn't need visa to go to London. An immigrant in a Schengen country can travel to any other Schengen country plus new non-Schengen entrants: Cyprus, Rom…

Ah, I see, thanks. So immigrants aren't yet full citizens. In retrospect, that makes sense.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#266

Post by anovikov »

anovikov wrote: post #24

LOL it is the other way around, cities become most expensive because developers flock there and spend cash. This happens now in Limassol, Cyprus: crowds of developers, most having their own startups, started to flock there since 3 years ago from Russia, Belarus and Ukraine - it was always a country to keep offshore companies/accounts, so every rich developer in ex-USSR already been there and knew the place, but since…

Now i am totally confused about how upvoting works here! 103 upvotes - i definitely never had nearly as much before. I don't really see what i wrote here was so valuable or interesting.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#267

Post by jarboot »

rmc wrote: post #253
Anderkent wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is such a weird American phenomenon, the whole roommate thing I think you're just sheltered; in every country in Europe that I lived in or had friends live in (Poland, UK, Portugal), students and young professionals flatshare. Or live with their parents, but it comes out to the same thing. If you're not already independently rich, you can't afford a single bedroom flat on your own. The simple fact is that a tw…

Yes, but when Americans (e.g. college students) talk about "roommates" they mean they share a bedroom ! Literal room mates

We don't. I'm an midwestern american college student and "roommate" means "someone that shares your living space" whether that be sharing a room to sleep or just sharing kitchen/bathroom/living room space. The only alternative I've heard is "suitemate" in suite-style dorms.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#268

Post by rjbwork »

anovikov wrote: post #266
anovikov wrote: post #24

LOL it is the other way around, cities become most expensive because developers flock there and spend cash. This happens now in Limassol, Cyprus: crowds of developers, most having their own startups, started to flock there since 3 years ago from Russia, Belarus and Ukraine - it was always a country to keep offshore companies/accounts, so every rich developer in ex-USSR already been there and knew the place, but since…

Now i am totally confused about how upvoting works here! 103 upvotes - i definitely never had nearly as much before. I don't really see what i wrote here was so valuable or interesting.

This site being mostly visited by Americans, we are interested to hear of this phenomenon playing out in other locales, especially one as small/niche as Cyprus.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#269

Post by pitaj »

rmc wrote: post #253
Anderkent wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is such a weird American phenomenon, the whole roommate thing I think you're just sheltered; in every country in Europe that I lived in or had friends live in (Poland, UK, Portugal), students and young professionals flatshare. Or live with their parents, but it comes out to the same thing. If you're not already independently rich, you can't afford a single bedroom flat on your own. The simple fact is that a tw…

Yes, but when Americans (e.g. college students) talk about "roommates" they mean they share a bedroom ! Literal room mates

Only in dormitories. Roommates in an apartment don't normally share rooms.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#270

Post by sidlls »

Muromec wrote: post #245
sidlls wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that idea is just that: an idea. It happens rarely enough that putting forward as normal requires some proof. The company I work for uses remote workers from Ukraine and India. I know for a fact their salaries are less than 1/3 domestic salaries. This is in my experience what is actually normal. Pretty good for the cost of living, but they aren't saving as much as I am unless a good portion of their expenses are…

>I know for a fact their salaries are less than 1/3 domestic salaries. What are absolute numbers?

The median domestic salary for the engineering positions the remote workers have is about $110k/year.
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