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Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

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Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#261

Post by throwaway2016a »

douche wrote: post #197
meddlepal wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flex hours aren't really the same as cutting the work week by 8 hours. It also requires you do not just expect people to make up the lost day by putting in 10-12 hour days on the regular. It's a deeply cultural thing and requires top-down executive and mgmt buy in.

You wouldn't even have to cut the work week by 8 hours. Just cut it by one work day , with the same 40 hour week. Shit, it's not that rough working ten hours officially when you're already working ten unofficially, and that extra day off for a three-day weekend is worth its weight in gold.

We try to not have people working "10 hours unofficially" :)

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#262

Post by user5994461 »

elastic_church wrote: post #168
krschultz wrote: post #7

If you are a startup and are trying to compete head to head with Google / FB / Amazon / Apple / Microsoft for the same people, you are going to have a really hard time recruiting. But there are plenty of great engineers that don't want to work at those companies for various reasons. There are plenty of great engineers that want to work remotely and don't have that option at the large companies. There are also plenty…

> But there are plenty of great engineers that don't want to work at those companies for various reasons. There's something in the water at the big companies, many employees there think they have passed a rite of passage and that EVERYONE NOT WORKING THERE simply didn't pass. I wish I wasn't exposed to evidence of this, but unfortunately I have. Many people don't consider the idea that others just don't want to work…

There is a massive difference between million dollars companies (startups) and big established companies (billion dollars in revenues).

Anyway, I only work for trillion dollars companies (by some metrics). Bigger is often better.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#263

Post by yomly »

madamelic wrote: post #155
jboggan wrote: post #147

I'm leaving Google this week to start my own company again. The prospect of eventually sitting on the other side of the table and competing with these big companies used to bother me but I've realized that the personalities I'm looking for don't flourish at Google, and vice versa. Google engineers (those that stay past the first vesting event) tend to be very risk averse, even for engineers. I'm not talking about tec…

>On our last team Vegas trip I kept track of how much everyone was gambling as a proxy for their risk appetite Yikes. Gambling is just a dumb idea in general (it is literally designed to make you lose money)... unless you are gambling with other's money. ;) There is a diff between "With enough work, this risky thing could work out" and "With enough luck, this risky thing could work out if I stop while I am ahead"

Statistical events tend to be lumpy. If you've ever experienced firsthand the act of winning a reasonable amount of money gambling, you'll realize the draw is more than trying to just beat the system.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#264

Post by user5994461 »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #21

I work at a startup that isn't profitable yet so our salaries are very low... - Our typical junior makes $50 - 60k - A typical mid makes $65 - 75k - Seniors (including CTO) make $90 - 110k In greater Boston. It is VERY difficult to hire at those rates. We had someone come in interviewing for a senior that I would place as a mid (generously...) and he accepted another offer for $150k. At our scale he would be making $…

You seem very conscious of the situation.

I hope you have left already to get double the salary elsewhere. That's always the right thing to do.

Use startups as a stepping stone when you couldn't do better. Waiting 2 years is rather long.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#265

Post by likpok »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #110
likpok wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average engineer at google with 5 years of experience makes at least 250K. To put it bluntly: I'm pretty sure the average cash compensation (that is, disregarding RSUs entirely, which is likely at least another 100k/yr) is going to push 200K. The same is substantially true of the main competitors to Google (Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft).

No it isn't. Your numbers are high.

Why do you think so?

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#266

Post by st3v3r »

WalterSear wrote: post #183
inputcoffee wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then the two optional responses are: 1. If the startup doesn't have the money to pay more, what should it do? 2. If a startup decides not to opt for any of the options, and the competitors do, what should it do? -- Note: the competitor can be in India, for example.

Increase the equity for early employees by roughly an order of magnitude and aggressively protect their, still relatively small piece of pie, from dilution.

Agreed. If you dilute a single employee's equity by any amount, you do not deserve to have that employee. Period.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#267

Post by st3v3r »

lloydde wrote: post #3

Why doesn't the article explore starting up in different geographies? Also, the most interesting questions are: * How much of the pool are employed by those companies? * How does the largest segment of employers pay? What percentage of top talent do they employee. I'd bet there is a larger percentage of top talent at top talent at other companies. Many, many people don't want to work at mega companies. Also, many, ma…

"Why doesn't the article explore starting up in different geographies?"

Honestly, because most VCs are insanely lazy, and have no interest in traveling anywhere outside the Bay Area to do stuff.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#268

Post by st3v3r »

bradleyjg wrote: post #184
phd514 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when does remote mean a lower salary? I work remotely in the US and I expect (and receive) a market rate salary that's not based on my location. Offering me a lower salary because I've chosen to live in a lower cost-of-living city will ensure that I don't consider working for you. It's not always an employee's market, but while it is, I intend to take full advantage of it.

Of course it means a lower salary. There are some number of jobs out there and most of them don't want remote workers. Job applicants that are willing to take jobs that forbid remote work can also apply to those that permit remote work, while workers that will only look at jobs that allow remote work can only apply to the small subset that allow it. It's straightforward micro-economic exercise to see that the when yo…

"Of course it means a lower salary."

Why? How does the value of the work I provide change based on where I'm located? Is an if statement somehow different if done in the Bay Area vs the Midwest?

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#269

Post by IanCal »

dmoy wrote: post #216
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought about this myself as well. To me a 20% reduction in work days is well worth a 20% reduction in pay. This is an easy perk that is offered at no large companies. Sadly it's not widespread. And I fear most companies wouldn't be well prepared to actually execute on it.

I have coworkers (at Google) with that arrangement. I have family members at top5 bank with that arrangement. It won't be publicly broadcast, but if you ask around it is an option.

In the UK, it's certainly worth trying. Apart from purely the fact that places may prefer to keep you for 4 days rather than lose you, employees have the right to request part time work (amongst other things). Businesses have to give a reason if they say no, and the reasons get harder to justify typically as a business grows. Not guaranteed, of course, that would be rough on all businesses but it's certainly something that should be taken seriously.

More info: http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1616

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#270

Post by elastic_church »

user5994461 wrote: post #262
elastic_church wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But there are plenty of great engineers that don't want to work at those companies for various reasons. There's something in the water at the big companies, many employees there think they have passed a rite of passage and that EVERYONE NOT WORKING THERE simply didn't pass. I wish I wasn't exposed to evidence of this, but unfortunately I have. Many people don't consider the idea that others just don't want to work…

There is a massive difference between million dollars companies (startups) and big established companies (billion dollars in revenues). Anyway, I only work for trillion dollars companies (by some metrics). Bigger is often better.

The person that had asked to interviewing me at one of those companies liked my competence and experience in certain areas, seemingly missing that I worked for the same scale of companies that he decided to rail against
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