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America’s opioid epidemic is worsening

economist.com

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Re: America’s opioid epidemic is worsening

#261

Post by dep_b »

cryptarch wrote: post #243
dep_b wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can have up to 5 plants at your home I think that's an urban myth actually. I know people that got kicked out of their house for having just three plants just growing outdoor so no tampering with electricity or fire risk. They used to be more lenient but people tended to burn their house down with illegal indoor plantations. It's weird how in a liberal country like The Netherlands where everybody wants full leg…

That sounds like a renters' agreement thing? Here's what the police says themselves on the matter: https://www.vraaghetdepolitie.nl/drank-en-drugs/drugs-en-str... So it's not legal but if you have at most 5 plants and let them be taken away you won't be prosecuted.

So you can't have any plants at all but if you have more than five you will always be persecuted. Perhaps the renter that got kicked out had violated some kind of agreement. It was social housing though, which is really common in The Netherlands, so I imagine a lot of people are facing the same problem.

Re: America’s opioid epidemic is worsening

#262

Post by zkms »

peteretep wrote: post #226
zkms wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe the answer isn't to make heroin available OTC at Walgreens Actually, in UK you can get actual opioids (as co-codamol) behind the counter, without a prescription. Funny how they don't seem to have a disastrous and deadly opioid epidemic like the US has. I'd so much rather live where people can get cheap pharmaceutical grade heroin at the pharmacy than where people who need opioids end up smashing windows to st…

> Actually, in UK you can get actual > opioids (as co-codamol) behind the > counter, without a prescription. > Funny how they don't seem to have a > disastrous and deadly opioid epidemic > like the US has. Cocodamol is 8mg of codeine to 500mg of paracetemol. To get 240mg of codeine -- equivalent to 10mg of oral oxycodone -- you'd need to take 30 cocodamol pills, which is 15g of paracetemol. If you present at a hospit…

Opioid users know about cold-water extraction. It's not rocket science. https://www.vice.com/en_dk/article/uk-codeine-addict-729

Re: America’s opioid epidemic is worsening

#263

Post by lordnacho »

moyang0913 wrote: post #216

Speaking from Singapore here. We don't have any drug problem at all. Drug dealers get death penalty. It's illegal to consume, too. You are put in jail. I pity your poor citizens who can only resort to legalization. Addicts are not healthy for the society or for the economy. It's just a matter of very bad (crime) or bad (jobless and getting high at home, disturbing neighbors). Government use tax I paid to supply water…

One side effect is that people who are using drugs responsibly are executed when they forget to empty their bags on the way home.

A friend of mine from Singapore had this happen to her friend.

Being completely draconian is not a solution to anything. We can fine people 100K for parking illegally, and you might get fewer people parking badly, but it will never seem to be reasonable.

Re: America’s opioid epidemic is worsening

#264

Post by foldr »

oxide wrote: post #117
DanBC wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to keep drugs out of the hands of kids, make them all legal and watch the usage numbers fall. Doesn't the UK experience with alcohol counter this? (I am strongly in favour of legalisation of all drugs).

Amphetamine will be abused by college students. Alcohol will be abused by highschool kids. It's a given. The allure of stuff like cocaine, with the "what else was I lied to about, what am I missing out on" mindset goes out the window when you stop lying and start letting people make their own choices.

>Alcohol will be abused by highschool kids. It's a given

But in the UK it's not even regarded as "abuse". It's perfectly normal for 15 year olds to drink alcohol with their friends. (And not against the law, if they are doing it in private.)

There may be benefits to legalizing drugs, but the idea that it will reduce usage of them is a fantasy.

Re: America’s opioid epidemic is worsening

#265

Post by gambiting »

pfortuny wrote: post #227
peteretep wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the healthcare is free and high-quality > Pretty much like the rest of fantasy > Europe. Isn't high-quality healthcare that's "free at the point of use" available in most of real Western Europe too?

Well, as long as you are willing to wait about six months for knee surgery, yes, it is free. Or for any other type of intervention.

Maybe, but I've never heard of someone being told that their treatment is not covered, while in US insurance companies always try to weasel their way out of paying for treatment if they can.

Re: America’s opioid epidemic is worsening

#266

Post by pjc50 »

grondilu wrote: post #260
pjc50 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pain is a minor consequence of disease There speaks someone young and healthy. Some conditions are extremely painful in the long term. "It is estimated that more than 100 million people suffer from chronic pain in this country,[11] and for some of them, opioid therapy may be appropriate. The bulk of American patients who need relief from persistent, moderate-to-severe non-cancer pain have back pain conditions (appr…

> "aggressive marketing by pharmaceutical companies" I'm wondering what that means, concretely. How exactly do they convince GPs to prescribe pain killers even when it's not really appropriate? They can't just pay them, can they?

Well, yes: http://www.pharmadisclose.org/cme/ut000309.html

http://fortune.com/2016/06/21/doctors-cheaper-drug-prescript...

Re: America’s opioid epidemic is worsening

#267

Post by jessaustin »

mos_basik wrote: post #211
jessaustin wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this "purity of argument" argument. You'd like to ignore prohibition as a cause of these problems, apparently since this other cause also exists (...conveniently ignoring that they're actually two aspects of the same cause, since pill mills are an unavoidable result of prohibition: never mind that). I contend that looking for "the one true big cause" is a mug's game. Sure, it would be nice if physi…

while we're talking about the orthagonality of people's comments, I have one to contribute! This is the second of your posts I've read in an hour with a b^) (checking your history shows at least one more) and now I'm curious. I've never seen that face before. The first time, I assumed it was a carelessly-executed B^) "2cool4you sunglasses wearer grinning sarcastically," but I guess it's not. My best guess is that it'…

My right eye is missing and I normally wear a patch over that socket. I've used that smiley for decades; my offline friends usually get it but it's understandable that that someone who's never met me would be uncertain...

Re: America’s opioid epidemic is worsening

#268

Post by alex_hitchins »

everybodyknows wrote: post #118
tim333 wrote: post #69

A potential solution: >Legal Heroin Prescriptions: The ‘British System’ You Never Knew Existed Basically prescribe heroin for the addicts so they don't need to deal / steal and the thing dies out. You could link getting the prescription to doing something useful work wise if you want to be moralistic. Been done since the 1920s - tried and tested. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/heroin-prescription-di...

How does the "British system" work out long-term, for the addicts as individuals -- resistance accumulation, vein damage, constipation? Do any live on to old age? Or does it "work" for the rest of society because they die peacefully, at home?

There is an issue that people get 'parked' on methadone and never fully come off it. However, some people I know are now in their 70's and still managing their addiction via Methadone prescribed by a GP. They have been on this treatment since the late 80's. They would not be alive and working, paying their taxes if this wasn't about.

Re: America’s opioid epidemic is worsening

#269

Post by dagw »

hvidgaard wrote: post #233
pfortuny wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, as long as you are willing to wait about six months for knee surgery, yes, it is free. Or for any other type of intervention.

There is a 3 month gurantee. If they have not diagnosed you, and started treatment within that periode, you're free to go to a private clinic or hospital, free of charge.

At least in wife's case there was an additional 4 month gap between "starting treatment" and actual surgery.

Re: America’s opioid epidemic is worsening

#270

Post by golergka »

mholmes680 wrote: post #41
savanaly wrote: post #4

Given that this article only touches on the supply of these drugs, is there a tacit assumption that the demand for opioids is driven by unemployment? If so, what can be done about the demand for these drugs in the long term? "Bringing back jobs" to those people whose comparative advantage is no longer manufacturing by taxing robots or imposing tariffs is a temporary stall, and to the degree it does work it amounts to…

I think its more dissatisfaction with life in general, with unemployment maybe being one of many triggers. You're probably right about addressing at the demand level. But, I see the problem being more societal - think no one really understands everything. You take away self-reliance of people (whether they realize it or not) at many levels... its cheaper to get some good-enough quality food at 13 places near my home,…

> And, now capitalism has made all margins of businesses so slim that there's no real way to enter a business and still have a safety net in case you fail. You either need to disrupt an industry, create a marketplace, find a niche, or fail hard.

While this is true, phrasing it like a critique of capitalism seems very, very weird. As if in a socialist or communist society starting a business is supposed to be easier and margins larger. (Disclaimer: I have founded two failed startups to date, still living on friends' couch after the second one now).

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