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A profound apology

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Re: A profound apology

#261

Post by nstj »

crazy2be wrote: post #255
nstj wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any evidence provided that the per-mile amount paid to drivers of Uber Black cars has gone down? I saw the article mention that the price to customers has gone down from $4.90 to $3.75, but is there any evidence of this actually flowing through to the drivers? Just a thought.

Actually, this is a good point. Uber subsidizes fares ~20% or so currently. Assuming they didn't used to do this, the payout to drivers seems like it would be about the same: 3.75 / 0.8 => 4.6875 (vs $4.90 originally) The per-minute fees are still quite a bit lower, admittedly: 0.65 / 0.8 => 0.8125 (vs $1.25 originally)

And even then, there's 0 indication or evidence that there's any link between the price paid to drivers and the price paid by riders. For all we know Black car drivers could be receiving more right now than they were when Uber came out, but from what I've seen there's no evidence anywhere in any of these articles about what the historical and current driver rates are?

Not taking sides (and I'm more of a Lyft guy than an Uber fanboy), but there's really no way to work out whether this whole argument is valid without more information.

Re: A profound apology

#262

Post by dnautics »

synicalx wrote: post #212
smcmurtry wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Kalanick: You know what? >Kamel: What? >Kalanick: Some people don't like to take responsibility for their own shit. They blame everything in their life on somebody else. I think that is a very insulting and superior thing to say to someone.

If something's true, does it really matter if it insults someone? Driver buys a $97k car, goes bankrupt because as it turns out buying a super expensive car that you obviously can't afford is a dumb idea, then decides to blame someone else for his poor decision making.

I don't think it was unreasonable to consider a $97K car as a business expenditure was such a bad idea. Let's say you get a 5-year loan, liberally that's about $30k a year, which is more than covered by the cost and business that Uber (UberBlack) was generating at the time; Until of course the volume of UberBlack got eaten into by the presence of UberX on top of fare cuts.

Re: A profound apology

#263

Post by dnautics »

gingerbread-man wrote: post #189
smcmurtry wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Kalanick: You know what? >Kamel: What? >Kalanick: Some people don't like to take responsibility for their own shit. They blame everything in their life on somebody else. I think that is a very insulting and superior thing to say to someone.

Out of curiousity, what do you think could have caused the driver to go bankrupt? It sounds like he bought an expensive, UberBlack-eligible car, intending to pay for it with his fares, but the fares were reduced and now he can't make the payments. How common is that scenario amongst Uber drivers? If Uber drivers are, in fact, independent contractors, then they have some responsibility to determine whether the busines…

it's not just the fare reduction, it's also the loss in business as customers stopped using UberBlack in favor of UberX.

Having driven for Uber and Lyft for a year and a half (even during the "good years") - the rate of new hires was most definitely a major concern and there were definitely rocky times. I was lucky to be able to mitigate this by moving to San Francisco from San Diego. While in San Diego I saw my take go down from ~$1200/wk to something like $800/wk, then back up to $1200-1600/wk when I moved to SF, and then back down to about $800 by the time I finished.

Personally I approached it as an exercise in entrepreneurship, a deep study in the dynamics of real-time economics, and an opportunity to vastly improve my "people skills" in addition to making more money than a PhD postdoc in biochemistry... So a success in all fronts, personally, but also I knew when to quit.

Re: A profound apology

#264

Post by HappyTypist »

spike021 wrote: post #205
dopamean wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do. However I believe compensation to drivers is more complicated because of what are essentially marketing costs in the form of subsidized rides. A year or so ago before Uber left Austin a driver told me one weekend that Uber guaranteed him something like $400 to drive for the weekend so long as he picked up 30 fares (I'm fudging the numbers a bit here because I cant remember). Based on promotions being run for…

Are you sure that $400 amount wasn't just credits for using the app rather than actual money? I've seen both Uber and Lyft advertise that if you become a driver and do X rides in Y time you'll get Z credits to use as a rider.

No, uber offers heavy incentives to drivers.

When I drove a few years ago, easily half of my income came from subsidies and guarantees.

Re: A profound apology

#265

Post by dang »

LargeCompanies wrote: post #209
codr4life wrote: post #94

Sorry Travis; once an asshole, always an asshole; all the leadership training in the world isn't going to change that. You're 40 years old, how long would you have us waiting? Even brother J. was on your tail in noting that bad trees don't give good fruit. Claiming 'profound' for PR-bullshit like this when you're in that kind of mess is just another nail in the coffin.

Weird I have said the exact same stuff and I get massively downvoted for calling KalaDick an asshole. He needs to step down he is so stupidly arrogant he is getting what he deserves and I hope worse. He has no humility (he hit the luck jackpot) only stupidity and arrogance!!! Hated him and Uber ever since they let my account get hacked and 1k stolen from me for a ride in London. Their response was it's the users faul…

We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the HN guidelines.

Re: A profound apology

#266

Post by dnautics »

dopamean wrote: post #122
mhluongo wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Uber took a standard %?

They do. However I believe compensation to drivers is more complicated because of what are essentially marketing costs in the form of subsidized rides. A year or so ago before Uber left Austin a driver told me one weekend that Uber guaranteed him something like $400 to drive for the weekend so long as he picked up 30 fares (I'm fudging the numbers a bit here because I cant remember). Based on promotions being run for…

Back when UberX was pushing in my city, I was lured to drive for Uber since I was a Lyft driver: They offered me $1000 signing bonus, $1000 to my referrer; then $40/hr for 50 hours for three weeks. I went to a starbucks in the most distant part of the coverage area and worked on the paperwork for my nonprofit and various coding side projects... Between that and various promotions, Uber spent about $6000 cash on me that year (based on my 1099-G) and based on my 1099, they made about $2500 on me on fares.

Re: A profound apology

#267

Post by badminton1 »

The true character of Kalanick is what you see in that video.

The apology doesn't mean much.

He is giving an impression of accountability when in reality that driver does not need an apology, he needs a viable business model that allows him to make a decent living.

Re: A profound apology

#268

Post by timthelion »

morgante wrote: post #242
acjohnson55 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet many in that same half have no problem scapegoating Latinos, blacks, Muslims, liberals, China, or pretty much anyone that's not themselves.

So maybe "some people" is actually most people. In fact, I'd say Travis is 100% correct. Most people out there would rather blame someone else for their problems than take personal responsibility.

Only, in some cases, people actually have another person to blame... Like in the case of this driver.

Re: A profound apology

#269

Post by nothrabannosir »

_xhok wrote: post #124

Here's the conversation that took place: Travis: So we are reducing the number of black cars in the next few months. Fawzi: It’s good. Travis: You probably saw some email. Fawzi: I saw the email [that says] it starts in May. But you’re raising the standards and dropping the prices. Travis: We’re not dropping the prices on Black. Fawzi: But in general. Travis: In general, but we have competitors. Otherwise we’d be out…

Sorry to bother you with this meta stuff but could you please remove the four space indent? :/ this makes it impossible to read on mobile. I tried to copy paste it, but safari :(

Re: A profound apology

#270

Post by ethbro »

unityByFreedom wrote: post #63
ethbro wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because normally the CEO is fired after presiding over a fuckup of this magnitude. (The rampant racism and sexism, not just this latest)

If social media wants his head, I'm sure they can get it. I think it's bad for tech and the country when we don't support people who say they made a mistake and are seeking help. If you do that, you only end up with really good liars in charge. Allow someone, somewhere, to admit a mistake and correct it in a leadership position.

Nobody is saying this because of the video.

We're saying this because of the hearsay but increasingly well-documented track record since the beginning of the company of a racist and sexist work environment, directly attributable to and encouraged by Travis Kalanick.

I'm not one to hop on the politically correct train at the first opportunity, but there's "Coworkers making borderline comments to each other" and then there's "My manager propositions me for sex, and HR lies to me, threatens my reviews, and encourages me to be silent about it because they've been told to do so by management."

So yes, he would have gotten the benefit of the doubt for the video.

But no, he in-no-fucking-way deserves leniency for fucking up people's lives by abrogating his responsibilities as CEO previous to that. And then the video.

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