Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

karussell.wordpress.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 391 posts

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#261

Post by JoshTriplett »

wott wrote: post #232
JoshTriplett wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll also have a great deal of wasted space, more moving parts, more breakable components, less structural support, additional hardware and software validation requirements, and require some careful engineering to avoid having it fall over backward when you open the screen slightly past vertical (battery cells work nicely as a counterweight). All for a laptop that wouldn't sell as well because people do care about s…

Why would you open the laptop screen when there is no battery? The only time when you have no battery in the laptop is the few seconds it takes to replace one with another. AFAIK, fixed batteries are located in the very same place as the removable ones: at the rear of the laptop. They are not spread everywhere, there is no hyper-advanced design is that respect, and they definitely do not occupy 60-80% of the chassis.…

> AFAIK, fixed batteries are located in the very same place as the removable ones: at the rear of the laptop.

Not typically. The tiny system board lives near the back of the laptop, to connect to the ports and the screen. (Often, the system board doesn't even take up the full width of the back of the laptop, and instead has ribbon cables connecting the ports on one side to the system board.) The battery takes up all the space under the front and middle of the laptop.

> They are not spread everywhere, there is no hyper-advanced design is that respect, and they definitely do not occupy 60-80% of the chassis.

I've seen the insides of many laptops, both in person and via pictures. I've seen battery cells laid out in many different shapes around the system board and other components, including Ls, Us, and Hs, and in multiple packets of cells with minimal connections between them.

As for "advanced design", https://www.apple.com/macbook/design/ made a point of talking about its terraced battery cells to fit the enclosure. And while some laptops might not go that far, I've seen many laptops shape groups of battery cells around other components to make a non-rectangular battery.

And as for volume, I've personally seen the internals of many laptops, and the better the laptop, the higher proportion of the volume that consists of battery cells. I wouldn't have given those estimated numbers if I hadn't seen laptops fitting both ends of that range and various points in the middle. (Some quick searches suggest that much smaller laptops, and lower-end laptops, may dip as low as 40-50% battery cells; medium and large laptops, and those intended as higher-end or with higher expected battery life, have more.)

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#262

Post by blakeyrat »

keithpeter wrote: post #141
cel1ne wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it curious that you care about boot-times. I use macbooks and just close and reopen the lid. Waking from this sleep takes less than a second usually. My average uptime is about 22 days until I reboot for an update or something. I used Linux for years, and I understood that in 2008 sleep/resume on notebooks didn't properly work, but now we have 2017 - 9 years later!

I use whole drive encryption to protect data in the event I leave my old X220 (Fedora) on the bus. I don't mind boot times in the 20s range (X220/Fedora/cheapo SSD) too much, but I do need to close down/reboot a couple of times a day otherwise no point in encryption.

> but I do need to close down/reboot a couple of times a day otherwise no point in encryption.

Given, I'm not a Linux user, but I don't understand this at all.

On Windows, encrypted is encrypted-- the lock screen is exactly as secure as the login screen. Are you saying that in Linux the lock screen is easily-bypassed? So you have to keep your computer logged-out when you're in a place it might get stolen?

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#263

Post by Zak »

keldaris wrote: post #207

I'm still using an ancient Thinkpad T400 I bought when they first came out (2007, I think?), and I still love it. Despite heavy use, everything works perfectly and the case could probably last for decades. Doing normal dev work on Arch Linux (everything from low level C++ to Python/Julia, but no web stuff) is pleasant despite the dated CPU. Every time I look at reviews of "modern" laptops or try a friend's machine (A…

I'm still using a T61/T60p hybrid I built. Sometimes it's kind of slow, but plenty of new machines still have 8gb of RAM and an SSD just like mine.

After this model, they switched to a keyboard with a skeletonized baseplate instead of solid steel, though I think the old keyboards can be swapped in to slightly newer models. The big thing for me is the screen. 1600x1200 is perfect for two Emacs windows side by side containing code up to 80 characters wide at a comfortable font size. Later "wide" screen resolutions are more likely to be shorter than wider.

I've been hoping for a change to this resolution monoculture, but I think I'm going to have to build something much more custom to replace this.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#264

Post by keldaris »

driverdan wrote: post #259
NikolaNovak wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep buying refurbished T420 laptops; even though my employer provided T450, I cannot switch to keyboard without standard Insert/Delete/Home/End set - not to mention losing the Ultrabay flexibility etc. T420 was the pinacle of the Thinkpads for me; T530 was a meh, T540 is the only time I've seen co-workers genuinely slam their laptops (removal of touchpad buttons etc). T450 brought touchpad buttons and some separat…

> I cannot switch to keyboard without standard Insert/Delete/Home/End set Learn the alternative shortcut keys. You can keep your hands closer to / on the home row instead of reaching across the keyboard. > not to mention losing the Ultrabay flexibility How often do you swap drives? I haven't used optical media for 5+ years.

Swapping hard drives and batteries is much more useful. It's also nice that you can take your optical drive, which seemed indispensable a decade ago, and replace it with something useful today.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#265

Post by driverdan »

TheCowboy wrote: post #178

I bought a used W520, as it was one of the last Thinkpads with full/normal keyboard. I just can't get work down as quickly using modern island-style keyboards. I recommend it especially if you are still using an older Thinkpad. It's fast, supports up to 32gb of memory, 3 hard drives (regular, micro SATA, ultrabay), and has a good video card. I also find the touchpad with its mouse thumb buttons to be easier on my wri…

Have you considered using an external mech keyboard? There are a decent number of small ones: Pok3r, Planck, HHKB Pro 2, others.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#266

Post by s_kilk »

forgotpwtomain wrote: post #238
mangecoeur wrote: post #190

As an ex-linux user and current mac user, I'm still frustrated by linux laptop hardware support. Ethernet ports that need to be re-plugged, suspend-to-disk not working... lots of glitches things that were already annoying 6-7 years ago but now are hard to justify compared with the polish you can expect from other systems. I could never go back from my macbook because I need everything to just work - no glitchy touchp…

> dodgy networking Had recurring wifi issues on a Macbook Pro as well (as did many of my co-workers)... Not saying it's great on Linux but I would hardly call the alternatives much better...

Same, after about 48 hours uptime my MacBook will start dropping network connection every few minutes. This can only be cured by a full reboot.

The MacBook also regularly (at least once per week) drops all input devices (including built in keyboard and trackpad), which can only be cured by a hard power-strangle and reboot.

My colleagues experience the same problems too.

Basically, the ultra-reliable Mac is a myth, its as prone to failure as any computer.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#267

Post by Tinyyy »

ronjouch wrote: post #239
UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FUD. That's a very disrespectful way of starting a post. In particular as you conclude that you largely agree with them. So which is it, they're spreading "Fear, uncertainty and doubt" or they're right? In either case, seems unconstructive.

> So which is it, they're spreading "Fear, uncertainty and doubt" or they're right? They're spreading the FUD that Linux laptop hardware support is frustrating, no questions asked. It's FUD because it's a fear-inducing oversimplification of the current state of things, which is that Linux laptop hardware support is enjoyable -if you do your homework- .

From your perspective, maybe. But it's a very close minded thing to say.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#268

Post by guelo »

forgotpwtomain wrote: post #238
mangecoeur wrote: post #190

As an ex-linux user and current mac user, I'm still frustrated by linux laptop hardware support. Ethernet ports that need to be re-plugged, suspend-to-disk not working... lots of glitches things that were already annoying 6-7 years ago but now are hard to justify compared with the polish you can expect from other systems. I could never go back from my macbook because I need everything to just work - no glitchy touchp…

> dodgy networking Had recurring wifi issues on a Macbook Pro as well (as did many of my co-workers)... Not saying it's great on Linux but I would hardly call the alternatives much better...

Same. Also never-ending Bluetooth issues.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#269

Post by ianai »

jclardy wrote: post #198
mangecoeur wrote: post #190

As an ex-linux user and current mac user, I'm still frustrated by linux laptop hardware support. Ethernet ports that need to be re-plugged, suspend-to-disk not working... lots of glitches things that were already annoying 6-7 years ago but now are hard to justify compared with the polish you can expect from other systems. I could never go back from my macbook because I need everything to just work - no glitchy touchp…

Similar story here. Used linux in my HS/early college years, but switched to Mac when the swapped to intel. Recently looked at the possibilities of using linux again, but haven't really found any hardware that "just works." There is that one dell ubuntu dev laptop, but that is a pretty expensive gamble at $1800. The best luck I've had for now is installing ubuntu on a crappy cheap Samsung Chromebook. Runs really well…

What chromebook and how hard was the install?

I hear you on the display. My retina screen makes anything else painful.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#270

Post by macinjosh »

ronjouch wrote: post #239
UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FUD. That's a very disrespectful way of starting a post. In particular as you conclude that you largely agree with them. So which is it, they're spreading "Fear, uncertainty and doubt" or they're right? In either case, seems unconstructive.

> So which is it, they're spreading "Fear, uncertainty and doubt" or they're right? They're spreading the FUD that Linux laptop hardware support is frustrating, no questions asked. It's FUD because it's a fear-inducing oversimplification of the current state of things, which is that Linux laptop hardware support is enjoyable -if you do your homework- .

I think the point was that most would rather just have a machine that works out of the box so they can do their actual work instead of 'doing their homework' on how to get their machine to hibernate, connect to wifi reliably, etc...
Post reply on HN