Live data from Hacker News

20 years ago, Apple bought NeXT

512pixels.net

261–267 of 267 posts

Re: 20 years ago, Apple bought NeXT

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Linux will ever take the desktop, per se. The only opportunity is to leapfrog over the whole paradigm. Android is obviously that. And the upcoming transition to conversational UI (not just voice but stuff like news feeds, Snapchat, etc) and also VR will I think be the end of the desktop paradigm. I realize this is often overstated blah blah blah. But both mobile and VR are still kind of operating in a p…

> I think be the end of the desktop paradigm. Think about how today's businesses generally use their employees: let's not beat about the bush: they're using Microsoft Office for producing documents and spreadsheets, doing research with Chrome, and (if applicable) creating business value using either line-of-business software ("Bob's Car Repair shop database in MS Access") or specialised content-creation software (Pho…

> right now nothing does that better than a large display which lets me interact with multiple applications simultaneously

Well, the command line is already more powerful, if less accessible. Piping streams together, writing code. These are very powerful things that would give you superworkers if your staff could do them. People stopped developing command line UIs because there was a gold rush on WIMP, so command line usability stopped getting funded. It's also just proven a hard nut to crack. People in academia have been trying and failing a more usable command line for a long time. Seems like just a matter of time to me though. It's only been 20 years.

Mobile is interesting, not because it is particularly better at anything, but just the opposite: there's no space on the screen, so it forces designers to reconsider more stream-based UIs. I.e., return to the command line paradigm and pick up where we left off in the 80s. WIMP and big screens give designers a bunch of idioms to rely on, and lots of space to fill up and they get lazy.

VR doesn't inherently do a whole lot more than a rectangular screen in terms of productivity. I think most VR UIs will be things you could make a rough approximation of on a desktop screen, minus immersion. But it's a playground in which to explore interaction ideas that will become the fundamentals of AR....

AR is where there is a new idea, which is that you can leave things lying around in space. A desktop is a window, and a relatively small one at that. You have to keep tidying it up. You waste a lot of time context shifting. Most workplaces are much larger than the few square feet a desktop provides. The killer feature of AR is basically just "spread out".

So, combine those three things... stream-based UI, with programming features (iteration, DSLs, pluggable objects), and then spread that out into space and I think you get something that will make desktops seem quaint.

Lots of human-computer interaction PhD dissertations between here and there though.

Re: 20 years ago, Apple bought NeXT

#262
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So where's the $15k super machine for today? I'd absolutely look to pay that for something with a similar advantage over a MacBook Pro.

Most of the advantage was the software. NeXT gave up on hardware by 94 or so. Oh, and then the web happened, setting us back 20+ years in terms of application development productivity.

If the web set us back 20 years, why weren't application programming frameworks able to bolt on some kind of networking/browsing capabilities and take the crown away from the web, with all of their l33t "application" abilities?

My answer: your application programming wasn't actually that valuable to real humans. The web leapt 20 years ahead on the things that actually mattered to the world, and we lost some glitz that really didn't.

I think the web actually has far too many capabilities for most applications, and application frameworks are mostly a racket to keep application programmers and professional application users in a lucrative dance of wasting each other's time.

The vast majority of people can't even string together two functions, which js quite possibly the most powerful thing computers can do. For all of our effort we can't even give the people that most basic of capabilities, something five year olds can do with a little guidance. Because programmers are obsessed with GUI animations and digital cockpits and enabling professional app users to bend to the arbitrary whims of their supervisors. Because when we imagine "power" we don't picture collective control of outcomes that matter to us, we think of the sensation we get when we can individually make a fancy tool do arbitrary things.

I realize that's just a rant, so I'll ask: what outcomes matter to you, that you feel are impossible on the web?

Re: 20 years ago, Apple bought NeXT

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you were okay with Steve Jobs personally stealing your ideas but not with his assistant doing so?

To my young mind, it was more about someone else taking credit for my wonderful ideas. My naive thinking was that Steve Jobs would be dazzled for sure. He'd probably want to hire me or pay me a million dollars, but some other person checking his email or administering the email server... how could I trust them? I was young and foolish and had spent too much time acquiring and configuring a NeXTSTEP compliant SCSI dri…

What were your dope gui ideas?

Re: 20 years ago, Apple bought NeXT

#264
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To my young mind, it was more about someone else taking credit for my wonderful ideas. My naive thinking was that Steve Jobs would be dazzled for sure. He'd probably want to hire me or pay me a million dollars, but some other person checking his email or administering the email server... how could I trust them? I was young and foolish and had spent too much time acquiring and configuring a NeXTSTEP compliant SCSI dri…

What were your dope gui ideas?

This is a little embarrassing.

Like most every idea I came up with at the time, it had the word “smart” in it.

Smart Windows.

What are “Smart Windows”? So glad you asked. At the time both NeXTSTEP and MacOS only had resizing handles on the bottom of windows(if I remember correctly). What I proposed was a full perimeter border on windows like what was seen in the Motif Window Manager, CDE, et al.

But wait there’s more...

If you double-clicked the border, the window would jump-move in that direction until it hit either another window border or the edge of the screen. If you held the shift key while double-clicking the window would instead expand in that direction. All together it was a precise way to quickly move and arrange a full screen panel of windows without ever having to drag a window or window border.

I eventually tested out the idea on Windows NT 4.0 inside a Visual Basic project. It was super dope. SJ missed out.

Re: 20 years ago, Apple bought NeXT

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like it was Steve https://www.flickr.com/photos/allardjm/480786084

Apple must have had lots of emails over the years with people wanting to return a 'Next' shirt or asking if they are going to restock such-and-such jeans again. There must be someone at Next clothing (next.co.uk) dreaming that Apple sell that domain name to them one day.

Not so much.

mail.next.com goes to 127.0.0.6

Re: 20 years ago, Apple bought NeXT

#266
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't Steve have an email that was in your mailbox by default when you got a new account on a NeXT machine? It had some embedded images and an audio file of him talking. Anyway, I sent whoever it was, pretty sure Steve, an email with read receipt enabled and he bitched me out for invading his privacy. This was ~93 or so.

Looks like it was Steve https://www.flickr.com/photos/allardjm/480786084

haha, i can't believe you found a screenshot. That's hilarious, i was pretty sure it was Jobs but memory is hazy. Thanks!

Re: 20 years ago, Apple bought NeXT

#267
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't Steve have an email that was in your mailbox by default when you got a new account on a NeXT machine? It had some embedded images and an audio file of him talking. Anyway, I sent whoever it was, pretty sure Steve, an email with read receipt enabled and he bitched me out for invading his privacy. This was ~93 or so.

Honestly I find read receipt requests to be in very poor taste, if not a sign of outright hostility, and no, having them by default is not an acceptable excuse, no more than forgetting capslock on would.

The funny thing is that I never even thought about it, it was my first real email account. But ever since then i've been a vigilant anti-read-receipt person and to this day disable clients from replying to them whenever possible.
Post reply on HN