Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30 • Hacker News Board

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#261

Post by ryhamz » Fri, Dec 09, 2016, 4:27 AM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #162

maverick_iceman wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll be supporting all the old people through Social Security/Medicare anyway.

I don't judge people who didn't or couldn't save enough for retirement and are living on SS and Medicare exclusively. I like Socialist safety nets of those sorts, and am happy to pay into them. One day I will be old and sick too. We all will be, except those who die early. I judge you if you didn't hold your government representatives accountable for excessive discretionary spending, which was borrowed out of Social…

Medicare is fine, some social security facets are fine, such as disability.

Social security as a general retirement plan? Shitty program.

What it should be AT MOST: mandated investment in a retirement account that you can't touch. Although I would prefer to not even have policy here at all. This is only necessary because people are by and large shit with money and will not save without being forced to.

What is is: take money from workers and transfer it directly. It's not even invested to generate additional wealth.

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#262

Post by ryhamz » Fri, Dec 09, 2016, 4:38 AM UTC

was_boring wrote: post #36

What makes me upset is that the economic realities do not match what is taught in large swaths of America. We are taught (at least in my community, and I am 30 now still living within 20 miles of where I grew up) that a very achievable ideal is a middle class existence with one parent working, and a small house in the suburbs. I am in the top 1% income earners for my generation and do not even come close to this. I t…

No way you're top 1% when normalized to location.

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#263

Post by seanmcdirmid » Fri, Dec 09, 2016, 4:38 AM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #198

skybrian wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I hope you don't judge people for an accounting fiction. Any treasury bonds held by the federal government (for example, by the Social Security) is money the government owes to itself and has no real-world effect. The only part that matters is treasuries held by private investors. Less government spending in the past would mean lower government debt (owned by private investors) today. That's only real effect. Y…

> Any treasury bonds held by the federal government (for example, by the Social Security) is money the government owes to itself and has no real-world effect. The only part that matters is treasuries held by private investors. I do not agree it has no real world effect. That money will need to be paid back to Social Security to pay people out. Its either paid by taxpayers, or by everyone through inflating our way out…

Money has to be lent to be saved, of course. If the money is not invested in the provider or public sector, then the wealth won't exist later to meet the deferred needs.

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#264

Post by shados » Fri, Dec 09, 2016, 4:45 AM UTC

I know it's not what's happening...but if we were to close the salary gap between the rich and the poor (so poor people made more money, and rich people make less), instead of keeping the gap the same but shifted up, or widening the gap...wouldn't this happen?

So in theory, it wouldn't be that bad a thing. Now, if it's just that the gap stays the same but things are shifted down, well obviously that's bad.

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#265

Post by D_Alex » Fri, Dec 09, 2016, 4:49 AM UTC

djb_hackernews wrote: post #10

Compound that with the percentage of income 30 year olds spend on housing, education, health care and child care compared to their parents and we have a recipe for disaster.

Housing: Today's 30yo live in nicer houses, that are on the whole located in nicer places. Eg. in cities that have less pollution and more facilities than they had before.

Education: Okay, that kind of sucks. But in here Australia, as an example, costs of repayments for the education are way less than the reductions in tax rates over the last 30 years. We had a 60% marginal tax rate when I started work...

Health care: again, the amount and level of health care received today is far higher, and it seems that things are now "health care" that were something else 30 years ago... eg. my health fund has rebates for gym, massages meditation etc.

Child care: this is a little odd... have child care workers' earnings increased? Are there less kids/carer in kindergarten? Or are we just putting kids in kindergarten more, instead of leaving them with Grandma?

Finally: I would trade all of the advantages that the previous generation enjoyed for smartphones and internet. The quality of life today is, IMHO, incomparably higher that 30 years back.

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#266

Post by randomdata » Fri, Dec 09, 2016, 4:49 AM UTC

qntty wrote: post #120

randyrand wrote: post #100

Could my parents afford an iPhone? No of course not. Among many other things. $$$ isn't the only quality of life indicator. When doing this calculation, you of course adjust for these things. an iPhone would cost billions of dollars in 1970. Is that the figure we should use? Probably not. But it means that these calculations are largely arbitrary since we don't know the true value of an iPhone to a person in 1970.

Who cares about iPhones? They could afford education, healthcare and housing. These calculations are far from arbitrary. We have a reasonable idea of the sorts of things that people need to live a decent life, and these things have gotten more expensive. (Ok, so another commenter pointed out that maybe housing isn't as expensive as it's made out to be, but it's certainly not cheaper.)

> They could afford education

To be fair, they could afford it because they didn't care about it. The degree attainment rate has doubled since 1980. If the student population reverted back to those levels, price would plummet.

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#267

Post by BuckRogers » Fri, Dec 09, 2016, 4:52 AM UTC

Well, I just tried to get a job in my company's QA department writing unit tests. Come to find out, my company ONLY hires non-leadership/senior positions in Belarus and Bangalore. I have friends in management, they can't bypass it. Rule was set high up.

The job I interviewed for is managing teams over in those places, and I'm not entirely qualified because I haven't worked in QA. So I'm just left no where. I always thought if I worked hard and did the right things, I could get ahead. It's not true.

I don't know if I'll ever achieve my goals without moving to India to get a job, then working my way back to the USA. But it certainly might be related as to why only half of 30 year olds earn more then their parents did. I'm going to keep trying but I've worked so hard and have a great reputation at work. I've done so much on my own time.

I for one, am fairly demoralized.

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#268

Post by travi5 » Fri, Dec 09, 2016, 4:55 AM UTC

ryhamz wrote: post #261

toomuchtodo wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't judge people who didn't or couldn't save enough for retirement and are living on SS and Medicare exclusively. I like Socialist safety nets of those sorts, and am happy to pay into them. One day I will be old and sick too. We all will be, except those who die early. I judge you if you didn't hold your government representatives accountable for excessive discretionary spending, which was borrowed out of Social…

Medicare is fine, some social security facets are fine, such as disability. Social security as a general retirement plan? Shitty program. What it should be AT MOST: mandated investment in a retirement account that you can't touch. Although I would prefer to not even have policy here at all. This is only necessary because people are by and large shit with money and will not save without being forced to. What is is: ta…

The disability program is hurting society. You can get disability for having autism.

Once they are on it, they have incentives to stay on it forever. If they make even one dollar working they lose it all, so they make extra cash under the table through committing fraud, selling drugs, etc.

No one can sue them and take it away, so they do things like go without insurance, buy things on credit with no intent to pay, titling their car in someone else's name, and hundreds of other tricks they learn in their new 'job'. By day they can do whatever they want. People who work have to pay not only to sustain them but also for the damage that they are causing directly to them.

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#269

Post by randomdata » Fri, Dec 09, 2016, 5:04 AM UTC

ainiriand wrote: post #130

vijayr wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is only going to get worse with software eating the world and automation of every possible task that we can. It has already started with companies like Amazon (in their warehouses) using robots extensively.

In my opinion, massive automation of tasks is going to cause a massive demand of programmers, developers and QA engineers, so no robot apocalypse yet. Basic income is not the solution to this problem because this is not a problem. The solution to this 'problem' is having a better education and making tech more accessible for everyone.

What's massive though? Programmers currently make up approximately 0.8% of the workforce. You could increase the size of the industry by an entire order of magnitude and you still would only be employing 8% of the workforce. About the same rate as manufacturing today; a sector often scrutinized for no longer providing enough jobs for the populace.

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#270

Post by outericky » Fri, Dec 09, 2016, 5:13 AM UTC

djb_hackernews wrote: post #10

Compound that with the percentage of income 30 year olds spend on housing, education, health care and child care compared to their parents and we have a recipe for disaster.

The sense of entitlement is a lot higher these days. I grew up in a 900 sqft house with 1 bathroom. Yet all my peers (myself included) seek out homes 2x, 3x or bigger.

Same with cars.... my parents bought used, reliable cars. Today we want fancy things.

Growing up we had cable tv and a phone line. Probably spent $50/month total. The family cellphone bill, home broadband, various tv services easily top out over $300/month.

We went out to eat once a month. Tops. It was a treat. Nowadays people (myself included go out 1, 2 or more times per week.

Earnings aside, current generations are spending way more because they want more.