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Amazon Go

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Re: Amazon Go

#261

Post by gohrt »

solatic wrote: post #235
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wouldn't trust 'picked up off the shelf' detection, not without the whole thing looking like a giant vending machine. RFID tags on products probably works better.

RFID probably works better if you control the packaging, for instance, for deli counter products. But for packaging that you don't control, you either have to slap an RFID tag on when the items get to the store, negotiate with suppliers to start to include RFID tags in their packaging for items shipped to your store, or arbitrarily limit yourself in terms of which products your store may sell. Not to mention that, if…

> because somebody would be able to steal a product by discreetly removing a tag and then walking out of the store.

That's already handled in grocery -- people can mess with regular barcodes if they want. it's a known cost of business

Re: Amazon Go

#262

Post by jonknee »

saosebastiao wrote: post #238
makecheck wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One interesting benefit of the “detect removal from shelf” concept is that there might finally be a time stamp associated with the removal of the item. Right now, if you see a random perishable item sitting on a shelf, you HAVE to throw it away because it could have been there for a long time. On the other hand, if you can see that some Frozen Peas were only taken off the shelf 2 minutes ago, you can just put them ba…

UPC codes are not uniquely identifiable to the unit, only to the product. You could narrow it down to all of the people who took that item off the shelf, but you'd probably be into surveillance reviews after that. An option is to label all the items with a unique identifier, but that is typically seen as too costly, which is also the reason Amazon hasn't fully fixed the FBA counterfeit problem.

Amazon is boasting it involves "computer vision, sensor fusion, and deep learning" so there is definitely quite a bit more going on than the UPC code. It also doesn't appear any UPCs are actually being scanned in the first place.

Re: Amazon Go

#263

Post by TulliusCicero »

maxsilver wrote: post #177
jtcond13 wrote: post #100

Your periodic reminder that 'retail salesperson' is the most common job in America (~4.5 million). http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/04/the-10-m...

"If you are Amazon, you have to acknowledge that you are slowly corroding the retail sector, which employs many (~4.5 million) people in this country." http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/silicon-valley-ha...

In 1800's - "If you are a farm equipment manufacturer, you have to acknowledge that you are slowly corroding the farming sector, which employs most people in the country."

Even if they "acknowledge" it, so what? It's not their job to create extra jobs to replace the ones that they've automated out of existence. It's never been the jobs of the companies creating disruptive technology, like farm equipment or cars or computers, to do this.

It wasn't Ford's job to find new jobs for everyone who had a horse-related career; same deal here.

Re: Amazon Go

#264

Post by losteverything »

owenversteeg wrote: post #243

How has nobody mentioned the worry that you'll get overcharged? I'm sure computer vision isn't perfect, however close it may be, and once you've left the store (presumably when you'd check your receipt) there's no way to prove you didn't take whatever you were charged for. I'd be pretty worried about accidentally "buying" something I didn't actually take, even if that's statistically unlikely. (Yeah, I know, it doesn…

I would go further and say that static pricing will not be exclusive. No prices on the shelves but prices as you scan. Person 1 purchasing at 8am Tuesday will not pay same as person 2 Friday at 534pm.

Re: Amazon Go

#265

Post by notatoad »

wehadfun wrote: post #217
excalibur wrote: post #91

What happens when you don't have enough money available to Amazon to cover all the things you grabbed? Do they give you a window to return items before banning you from the store and/or notifying police?

Wonddered the same thing. Also what if you dont want your purchases to end up in the cloud. Can you still pay with cash?

if you don't want your purchases to end up in the cloud, probably don't shop at amazon.

Re: Amazon Go

#266

Post by tejaswiy »

owenversteeg wrote: post #243

How has nobody mentioned the worry that you'll get overcharged? I'm sure computer vision isn't perfect, however close it may be, and once you've left the store (presumably when you'd check your receipt) there's no way to prove you didn't take whatever you were charged for. I'd be pretty worried about accidentally "buying" something I didn't actually take, even if that's statistically unlikely. (Yeah, I know, it doesn…

The whole thing is driven by camera input. If they have a reason to be suspicious, they can just rewind the tape.

Re: Amazon Go

#268

Post by DominikPeters »

pimeys wrote: post #52
Roritharr wrote: post #20

Interesting, i've read about these Store Concepts for years as Test Projects from Rewe in Germany, but they never rolled them out widely. Probably sticking RFID on everything was too expensive. This camera based solution might be better suited for a wide rollout.

I remember having a discussion with a developer doing these RFID based solutions. He said one tag was back in those days about 10-15 cents each, which is way too much for supermarkets. Talking about Rewe and German supermarkets, it's unbelievable how horrible the whole experience of doing grocery shopping is here in Germany. You almost always need to queue a lot, there is no space to pack your groceries and the cashi…

If you're talking about discount supermarkets (Aldi, Lidl, etc), then note you're not supposed to pack your groceries at the cashier, but rather put them back into your shopping cart and pack up by the packing tables behind the cashiers. This way, checkout proceeds much faster compared to almost all other countries.

Re: Amazon Go

#269

Post by gohrt »

rhino369 wrote: post #249
elicash wrote: post #43

I worked at a grocery store for several years, and one thing I recall is customers CONSTANTLY putting items back in a random aisle, rather than where they found it. I wonder how this tech deals with that? Maybe they figured that out, too. But I was amused in the video when I saw the customer putting it back where it belonged, because that's not how I remember that going... All that said, this is fantastic and excitin…

This made me think of a possible exploit. If these sensors are using weight sensors and cameras, it might be possible to pick up similar items and then put back the much cheaper version.

It turns out the most people aren't interested in complex strategies to steal a grocery items while under intense video surveillance with ID verification.

Re: Amazon Go

#270

Post by Peroni »

Merad wrote: post #86

I hate it when companies offer a "how this works" section that doesn't actually tell you a damned thing about how it works. * How does my Amazon account get associated with the items I take? * How are items detected when leaving the store? If my friend and I walk out side by side, how does it know (if it does) which items are mine and which are hers? * What happens when someone picks up an item and leaves without fir…

These are purely assumptions based on what I saw on the video alone:

>If my friend and I walk out side by side, how does it know (if it does) which items are mine and which are hers?

Looks like the entry/exit is the same type of set-up you find at most large office buildings with the tap in/out gates (see screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/e7fDglY.jpg). I assume it only lets one person out at a time which also suggests your friend could only enter the store if they had an amazon go account and tapped in themselves.

>What happens when someone picks up an item and leaves without first doing whatever check-in/registration/setup is necessary?

Again, based on those gates, I'd assume you can't actually access the store without going through the necessary set-up first.

Personally, I'd like to know what happens if/when my phone battery dies in-store.

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