Tesla reports first quarterly profit in more than three years • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla reports first quarterly profit in more than three years

#261

Post by makomk » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 3:26 PM UTC

hxegon wrote: post #183

ghaff wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I have a 20 year old Honda del Sol--which is essentially a 2-seater Civic variant--on which I spend under $500/yr on gas and under $500/year on maintenance. That's not typical I'm sure--and I do have another vehicle--but you can't claim your numbers as general savings.

Can you really compare a 20 year old honda del sol to a new model 3 (when it comes out obvioulsly) though? I don't have anything against used cars, but its apples and oranges. You can totally claim those numbers as savings, in an apples to apples comparison to a similar class car from a close year.

When you're what comparing is gas and maintenance, certainly - the main disadvantage of 20 year old cars is that they're worse for both.

Re: Tesla reports first quarterly profit in more than three years

#262

Post by jandrese » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 3:44 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #58

usaphp wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I also happen to know a lot of the people who bought a heavily discounted Tesla in Q3 feel kind of burned that right at the beginning of Q4 Tesla announced the new Autopilot hardware (that isn't retrotfitable on old vehicles). " Wow I guess this is the best proof of how Tesla is really changing the way auto owners think, this is something that wasn't unthinkable before Tesla and their over the air updates. Can you…

No, but I can imagine a BMW owner complaining that the 2016 model came out 3 weeks after he bought his 2015, with no notice from BMW, the sales guy, or the press. And that the 2016 model came with a bunch of new features he really wanted and would've been willing to pay for.

Can you image going to a BMW dealership and having the salesguy tell you "You shouldn't buy this car, we have new ones coming out in two weeks"?

Re: Tesla reports first quarterly profit in more than three years

#263

Post by kjdal2001 » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 3:59 PM UTC

saiya-jin wrote: post #255

forgetsusername wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> simply because they are the main oil producer? You realize that the US is a net oil exporter now, right? The SA regime will collapse because of many factors. Your comments read like you believe everyone in the world is corrupt except Elon Musk.

every politician IS corrupt in this world, usually on many layers by many parties at the same time. I am sure there are few exceptions out there, but as described - few, and exceptions.

Having different priorities than you is not the same as corrupt.

Re: Tesla reports first quarterly profit in more than three years

#264

Post by sqeaky » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 4:53 PM UTC

nickik wrote: post #241

patrickk wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To continue this train of thought, the entire reason Silicon Valley exists in the first place is because of Department of Defense spending: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTC_RxWN_xo (aka Big Government spending.) The foundations of the web were laid down by Tim Berners-Lee while working at CERN, a huge, expensive physics research organisation funded by European governments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN#Comput…

While this is true, its also not the point. Russia and other places have and had tons of programs like it, but they don't have a Silicon Valley. Government is usually always involved in nearly everything, because they are spending almost 50% of the GDP, and even 100 years ago they spent 20% or so. Other countries its sometimes as high as 70%. Saying that computers, the web, satellites would not exist without governme…

Governments can't innovate but can absorb a ton of risk (like waging war levels of risk), Businesses can innovate but really cannot take large risk.

When a government absorbs risks by spending on research it can have businesses do the work on the promise the benefit is shared. Christopher Columbus finding America and the companies that launched Apollo both worked this way. It seems to work well in practice.

It is hard to say that we would definitely be this far without Government spending. It is reasonable to make a case we could never leave the planet without an Apollo like initiative. How would the space industry would have gotten started purely in the private sector? Its not like they could have contracted the launches out, there were no launch companies. I don't hold this extreme view but I can see how it could be held.

To go to the most extreme view I can see possible: It is entirely possible that without that spending humanity wouldn't have GPS. It is also possible a foreign power that was hostile could have GPS and use it in war against us. With a few tech changes like that in the worst of these scenarios there could be enough tech lopsided-ness that MAD never worked and one side could have ruined the planet with nukes during the cold war.

Re: Tesla reports first quarterly profit in more than three years

#265

Post by smtheard » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 5:14 PM UTC

mitchellh wrote: post #23

Really great news! But something that shouldn't be overlooked is the discounts they gave in Q3 to push deliveries up. First, those that know me know that I am a Tesla FANATIC. My girlfriend once challenged me to not talk about Tesla (motors, energy, something) for a 24 hour period. I dunno if I've ever done that honestly. I'm also an owner (no surprise given my fanaticism, lucky to be able to afford one). And I also…

Hah! How random to see someone I used to play warcraft on hackernews posting about TSLA, what up mitch.

Totally agree with you on this, long elon musk is always the play.

Re: Tesla reports first quarterly profit in more than three years

#266

Post by misterhtmlcss » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 5:18 PM UTC

vsl wrote: post #216

will_hughes wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no notice from BMW, the sales guy, or the press Tesla has done this for a long while. Newer larger battery pack options, newer interior and tech package options, and completely new performance and configuration options (insane, dual motor, and autopilot 1.0 all hit at once) While there wern't announcements ahead of time what was coming, there were often advance notice that there was an announcement coming, and even…

Yes, they keep doing it, and if you pay close attention to Tesla, you’re aware of it. You’re also aware of rumors of AP2 coming. If you don’t follow Tesla news, you’re in for a surprise. Regardless, I think it’s a fair critique: buyer’s remorse is a real thing with Tesla. It’s one thing to buy a $3000 computer from Apple and have it replaced with a much better one the next week, it’s another to buy a $100K car and ha…

Everyone discounts before they launch a new product. You don't need to follow Tesla to know a new product is eminent when you walk into a show room and they knock $10k of the price because you look pretty or walk nicely. Big deals and big discounts with serious need are always informative to the buyer.

Plus people but cars when then want cars, some will always lament they could have waited a bit, but most I expect will be happy to own a Tesla that was (and is) amazing just a few days ago.

Re: Tesla reports first quarterly profit in more than three years

#267

Post by greglindahl » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 5:34 PM UTC

mtgx wrote: post #248

vsl wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they keep doing it, and if you pay close attention to Tesla, you’re aware of it. You’re also aware of rumors of AP2 coming. If you don’t follow Tesla news, you’re in for a surprise. Regardless, I think it’s a fair critique: buyer’s remorse is a real thing with Tesla. It’s one thing to buy a $3000 computer from Apple and have it replaced with a much better one the next week, it’s another to buy a $100K car and ha…

It doesn't help that Tesla tends to have long delays for cars. For instance, let's say I pre-ordered a Model 3 now. But I won't get it the first half of 2019. And then a month later, Tesla announces Model 3 with Autopilot 2.5 hardware or whatever, holographic HUD, and so on. And that new car will ship within 2 months. Then I'd feel pretty screwed by Tesla...

You don't understand the Tesla order process. People waiting in line for Model 3 have not picked the exact details of their cars -- they do that right before the car is produced. If new stuff is announced, it's immediately available. So the only people who are pissed are those whose cars are in the assembly line.

In short, the delay between reservation and receiving the car is not an issue.

Re: Tesla reports first quarterly profit in more than three years

#268

Post by Reason077 » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 5:50 PM UTC

rmah wrote: post #226

eanzenberg wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US gas is subsidized to hell. It's not even close compared to EV credits paid out.

Gasoline is not subsidized, it is heavily taxed.

Yes, gasoline is taxed at the retail level (though not particularly heavily in the US).

However oil & gas production receives significant subsidies in many (most?) countries around the world, including the US.

In addition, oil used for things like aviation fuel, heating, power generation, and maritime fuels used for shipping, are typically completely tax-free.

Re: Tesla reports first quarterly profit in more than three years

#269

Post by Reason077 » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 5:53 PM UTC

eanzenberg wrote: post #201

Analemma_ wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... at a considerable cost to taxpayers in what was essentially a large upward wealth transfer. It might be worth it in the end, but call a spade a spade.

In the US gas is subsidized to hell. It's not even close compared to EV credits paid out.

The ZEV credits that Tesla receives, and sells on, aren't paid for by taxpayers - they're paid for by other automakers.

Ultimately, it comes out of the profits of whichever automakers aren't producing enough low-emission cars.

Re: Tesla reports first quarterly profit in more than three years

#270

Post by greglindahl » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 5:55 PM UTC

celticninja wrote: post #245

biehl wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean "Considering how most of his current businesses exist with some subsidies to slightly counter the massive government subsidies to fossile fuel companies and polluting-car externalities" ?

It's odd how these subsidies are somehow seen as a negative for Tesla, when they are not tesla specific, they apply to all EV regardless of manufacturer, in addition the incumbents have been getting subsidies and bailouts for longer than Tesla Motors has existed and it would take a huge amount of government support for tesla to come even close to say GM in terms of public money received.

Not odd at all. Greenpeace attacks Apple for using the same environmentally-unfriendly materials that everyone else uses... because Apple is popular. The subsidy-for-Tesla narrative is driven by folks who either don't like the government, don't think climate change exists, or don't like the hype around Elon/Tesla.