Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief • Hacker News Board

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#261

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 10:55 PM UTC

ChemicalWarfare wrote: post #221

morgante wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like toomuchtodo mentions, we could treat it like other unsecured debt (like credit card debt). Just because it's unsecured doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to discharge it with bankruptcy. Get the government out of the loan business and the market will correct itself. You won't be able to get a loan for a useless degree and if you end up being unable to pay off your loan you can go through normal bankruptcy proceed…

Upvoted. But. The argument against this could be that due to the unsecured nature of the six-figure (potentially) debt the free market rates will be insane effectively reducing access to higher ed for those who can't afford it without the loans. Then again, if less ppl could afford a degree in Queer Musicology (does exist - https://www.musicology.ucla.edu/mission-and-history-1 ) or let's say Environmental Studies etc…

> The argument against this could be that due to the unsecured nature of the six-figure (potentially) debt the free market rates will be insane effectively reducing access to higher ed for those who can't afford it without the loans.

Given that federal loans have always had rates set by government policy (not market rates) and the fact that private participation in the program was ended in favor of exclusively direct loans in 2010, I'm not sure what the concern for "market rates" is -- there is no market involved.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#262

Post by friendlygrammar » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 10:55 PM UTC

white-flame wrote: post #204

outside1234 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me know when you find the hole in the ground that is shooting money up into the air that enables us to have luxuries like this. Frankly, we have thousands of other problems, highlighted by basic health care, that we should probably prioritize first.

Note that this is literal in some cases. Norway, being one of the major neo-socialist successes, is also a major oil exporter in the region. They have holes in the ground shooting money up that help enable social programs.

>neo-socialist

This isn't a word and Norway isn't socialist.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#263

Post by zeveb » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 10:56 PM UTC

morgante wrote: post #176

Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? I made the choice to go to a slightly less prestigious school so I wouldn't have to go into debt for college. I also worked all through college to pay for my expenses. Should I now be punished for that decision? Why should we make people's financial mistakes consequence-free? I think the government should get out…

> Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions?

Not just that: this is, ultimately, a giveaway to the academic classes, who have lucked into the business of selling things to unwise consumers spending someone else's money.

When these loans are forgiven (let's not fool ourselves: they will be), the federal government will have moved $1.3 trillion into the coffers of colleges, universities, professors, junior assistant vice-provosts of diversity affairs, athletic coaches and the whole panoply of 21st-century academia.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#264

Post by ourmandave » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 10:56 PM UTC

jonahrd wrote: post #184

morgante wrote: post #176

Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? I made the choice to go to a slightly less prestigious school so I wouldn't have to go into debt for college. I also worked all through college to pay for my expenses. Should I now be punished for that decision? Why should we make people's financial mistakes consequence-free? I think the government should get out…

You may be right that it's a poor financial decision, but I still hope to one day live in a country where people can pursue education in any subject matter (not just STEM/other money makers) for the pure purpose of educational fulfillment. That can only be done with a system that helps pay for education instead of letting the market decide which degrees are most valuable in terms of pure capitalistic measures

I know several people who have degrees that have no relation to their current "day job".

Maybe it's just having the sheepskin that matters most.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#265

Post by microDude » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 10:57 PM UTC

clifanatic wrote: post #90

atombath wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that feeling... I'm nearing the end of my loans and dropped $3k on one of them yesterday. I would have rather had a vacation if it's just going to vanish! ...but don't get salty because the debt won't vanish. I have no doubt that if an education loan is forgiven, it WILL affect that persons credit rating. Much like when a debt is forgiven/charged-off. Also, charge-offs are typically treated as a form of…

I refuse to not be salty if somebody else has something I don't have.

Just finished paying my student loans this month. 8 years at $500/month. Yeah, I overpaid to get rid of them faster, but if I could have gotten a reduction in year 2016+X I would have paid the minimum.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#266

Post by alasdair_ » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 10:57 PM UTC

morgante wrote: post #176

Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? I made the choice to go to a slightly less prestigious school so I wouldn't have to go into debt for college. I also worked all through college to pay for my expenses. Should I now be punished for that decision? Why should we make people's financial mistakes consequence-free? I think the government should get out…

The issue is that unlike every other form of debt, student loans are bankruptcy proof.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#267

Post by alasdair_ » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 10:57 PM UTC

morgante wrote: post #176

Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? I made the choice to go to a slightly less prestigious school so I wouldn't have to go into debt for college. I also worked all through college to pay for my expenses. Should I now be punished for that decision? Why should we make people's financial mistakes consequence-free? I think the government should get out…

The issue is that unlike every other form of debt, student loans are bankruptcy proof.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#268

Post by the_watcher » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 11:02 PM UTC

morgante wrote: post #176

Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? I made the choice to go to a slightly less prestigious school so I wouldn't have to go into debt for college. I also worked all through college to pay for my expenses. Should I now be punished for that decision? Why should we make people's financial mistakes consequence-free? I think the government should get out…

I have student debt that I irresponsibly took out (I am thankfully able to manage it with diligence and patience), and I am with you on the moral hazard. I'm also 100% with you getting the government out of the loan industry, particularly if they continue to insist on not using any kind of ROI estimate for actual dispersal of the loans. That said, you're just sticking your head in the sand if you can't see the structural risks associated with the sheet volume of student debt out there that simply cannot be walked away from.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#269

Post by jazzyk » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 11:03 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #219

cmurf wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right and also tuition doesn't mean cost of attendance where there are all kinds of additional fees, books, room and board, etc. Cost of attendance is easily double that of tuition. So it's actually in the vicinity of $25K per year for a state university. State college and community college in particular can be a lot less, and it's possible to even split the difference and do 2 years community and then graduate from…

room and board You're paying for room and board regardless if you go to college or not. Or you can just live with your parents.

Most colleges require on-campus residence for at least 1 year (usually 2 years)

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#270

Post by the_watcher » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 11:03 PM UTC

friendlygrammar wrote: post #262

white-flame wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that this is literal in some cases. Norway, being one of the major neo-socialist successes, is also a major oil exporter in the region. They have holes in the ground shooting money up that help enable social programs.

>neo-socialist This isn't a word and Norway isn't socialist.

It has a Wikipedia page, a Wiktionary page, and copious references to it by well known publications.