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TTIP Leaks

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261–268 of 268 posts

Re: TTIP Leaks

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to be a bit more pragmatic. The human race is composed of neither angels nor devils: but humans. Beings with flawed and incomplete morality. Its best if we judge ourselves by comparing against the actions of our fathers, otherwise we may lose ourselves in idealism. The claim after all, is that the current time is the most prosperous and peaceful time of all of human existence. And as far as I can tell, actual…

> Its best if we judge ourselves by comparing against the actions of our fathers, otherwise we may lose ourselves in idealism. Honesty and decency existed thousands of years ago, too, "our fathers" aren't a monolith, just like the present isn't. But more importantly, I say including 10 different versions of jQuery on one page to color 10 letters makes it load needlessly slow, and you say that's still faster than usen…

    Then the idiot who praises, with enthusiastic tone,
    All centuries but this, and every country but his own;
-- The Mikado (1885)

Go back just 150 years ago, and Slavery is legalized. 250 years ago, and slavery is widespread. IMO, its going to be rather difficult to be "fully human" when you are legally considered 3/5ths of a person.

Go back 250 years ago, and the entire concept of "privacy" and "security within your home" doesn't even exist (to free-men. Obviously not granted to slaves, who were raped and sold off by their owners. Don't forget that Thomas Jefferson was a slaver, despite being officially against it). The USA is one of the first countries in the world to formally recognize the right to privacy through the 4th Amendment.

Go back 1000 years ago, and you have people dying of the Plague, and divorce court being settled by TRIAL BY COMBAT, to the death! You aren't really a person unless you're from a noble house either.

http://www.ripleys.com/blog/trial-by-combat/

But yeah, go complain about privacy rights. I raise you SLAVERY. Modern civil rights for all people is a concept that is only 50 years old or so, since the 1960s when the concept began to solidify.

Again, ignore history at your peril. Today is the most peaceful, prosperous time of history. And Pax Britannica (the period of peace in the 1800s, the time period when "The Mikado" was written) is also relatively peaceful compared to hundreds of years before that time.

But Pax Americana stands head-and-shoulders better than Pax Britannica. We have women's sufferage / women's rights. Gays aren't literally put to death (even smart gays, like Allan Turing, would be able to live in peace today). Jim Crow laws don't exist anymore, and the Ku Klux Klan aren't lynching randoms, at least out in the open, like they used to.

And of course, we aren't killing tens-of-thousands of innocent civilians at a time (because killing everybody is much easier when conquering a nation than trying to rule).

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> Nope. The claim was that this is because of countries wanting to dominate each other. I say it's despite of that.

Imperialism is dead dude. Let it go and rejoice in the present.

On the other hand, if you're the kind of person that "The Mikado" is describing, perhaps you can't. Any century but this, any country but your own??

Re: TTIP Leaks

#262
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>this is what we get when countries still want to dominate each other. The most peaceful, prosperous, and healthy period known in human history?

You're repeating propaganda. May be there's less violence, but the amount of suffering has skyrocketed over the years. A more than significant amount of people are dependent on tranquilizers and anti-depressants to make their life bearable, because for them it has become mundane and meaningless without. Statistiscs may tell a story of less violence, and people getting older and having more material possessions, but t…

Is this HN or /r/conspiracy lol.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#263
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

generating 15 horsepower You don't need a lot of horsepower to replace a horse. Quite literally, one would be enough.

In the spring you have a specific number of weeks to prep and plant. The amount of food you can produce is directly tied to the horsepower you can apply. It's also the difference between spending 15 hours a day in the field versus 8.

Yeah, I know, more power means you can process a bigger swath of the field faster with one pass. But I've driven a ~15hp tractor, and it could still do a lot more than you'd think.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Its best if we judge ourselves by comparing against the actions of our fathers, otherwise we may lose ourselves in idealism. Honesty and decency existed thousands of years ago, too, "our fathers" aren't a monolith, just like the present isn't. But more importantly, I say including 10 different versions of jQuery on one page to color 10 letters makes it load needlessly slow, and you say that's still faster than usen…

Then the idiot who praises, with enthusiastic tone, All centuries but this, and every country but his own; -- The Mikado (1885) Go back just 150 years ago, and Slavery is legalized. 250 years ago, and slavery is widespread. IMO, its going to be rather difficult to be "fully human" when you are legally considered 3/5ths of a person. Go back 250 years ago, and the entire concept of "privacy" and "security within your h…

Yes, and? What makes you think I'm saying "everything gets worse all the time"? Are you saying those things are all because of "nations trying to dominate each other", or maybe simply because of humans thinking and inventing and reasoning and arguing and whatnot?

> But yeah, go complain about privacy rights. I raise you SLAVERY.

I love how you asked me to re-read the comment, and now continually talk about straw men yourself. That's quite rich.

> On the other hand, if you're the kind of person that "The Mikado" is describing, perhaps you can't. Any century but this, any country but your own??

Nope, and nothing I said would indicate so, either. With not one word did I say "things were better back then in X". And whether imperialism is dead or not (how that goes together with "Pax Americana") doesn't change that your responses address straw men. So I'll simply take it you are projecting when you implicitly muse whether I'm an idiot. Proof is in this string of comments, have a nice life.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#265
post #197
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I was talking about that. But if you want an answer, many of the first cars were electric, if they went with the electric engine instead things wouldn't be exactly the same, but would have allowed the US to increase to 300+ million no problem.

I'm sure the electric planes, tanks and aircraft carriers would've made for some interesting historical footnotes in 1939. Assuming we hadn't already all starved due to the lack of food being produced by the electric farm tractors.

[deleted]

Re: TTIP Leaks

#266
post #9

So business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in the US side of negotiations (far more than any public interest groups). Then on the EU side, business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in negotiations to the detriment of all public groups. So this is really lots of big US companies negotiating with themselves on ho…

Not just Europe. They are trying to achieve the corporate dream that is a prerequisite for every cyberpunk dystopia: a set of corporate laws that is placed in a jurisdiction superior to that of the state and that could even fine government that do not obey them.

We still can't agree that there should be an international jurisdiction over war crimes, but millions (billions?) are spent in this effort to create a universal right to profit over different nations.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#267
post #210
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, what he's saying is "your metrics are measuring the wrong things and so it does not matter what numbers pop out of them; they are completely meaningless when it comes to answering the question which is actually important".

But nobody can answer the important question except for themselves.

You can measure the amount of ability to choose and answer your own questions though. Also, this all very idealistic nonsense- until 300 years ago, we lived basically in tribal community, and people yearn for that, no matter how futuristic they dress up.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#268
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're repeating propaganda. May be there's less violence, but the amount of suffering has skyrocketed over the years. A more than significant amount of people are dependent on tranquilizers and anti-depressants to make their life bearable, because for them it has become mundane and meaningless without. Statistiscs may tell a story of less violence, and people getting older and having more material possessions, but t…

What you're saying is "statistics might tell one story, but let me tell you, without citing sources or evidence, those statistics are wrong".

No, what he is saying is that you can make any argument appear valid if you cherry pick statistics.

There's less violence according to who? There are more people in prison today then any time in history. I'd argue that imprisoning someone is an act of violence. Violent coercion is also violence. Every time the government violates your rights, at the point of the gun, that's violence. That occurs hundreds of millions of times per day due to the actions of our police state.

Delusional people who talk about the rosy benefits of overpopulation always fail to mention that overpopulation is a direct cause of the 6th mass extinction, the saturation of the environment with chemical pollutants, the overfishing of the oceans, the destruction of tillable fields with nitrogen injection (which also leads to massive dead zones in waterways from runoff), and the list goes on.

Talking about how wonderful overpopulation is and how great we are getting along is like talking about how warm and comforting the fire on the life boat is while you burn your oars. It seems like a great idea until the oars are gone and not only are you cold, but you can no longer row.

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