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Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

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Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#261

Post by f1nch3r »

baldfat wrote: post #23

I owned a SMALL Record Label and Studio. I was (still?) good at picking out talent in bands. The Whole Industry Sucks I had two bands that ended up on Major Labels and Toured the World. I met a kid on the street wearing one of my Bands shirts and struck up a conversation. They still love the band 10 years later. These guys per person made at the TOP $7,000 in profit after expenses were paid. One band did a KickStarte…

Never thought I'd see a post involving Zao on HN. That's sad to hear that Solid State did them wrong, regardless of the jerkiness of (I'm assuming you're referring to) Jesse Smith.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#262

Post by girvo »

riprowan wrote: post #151
Dwolb wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a side note, I saw the founder of Pandora speak and he said their mission is to create a middle class for musicians by making it easier to discover, listen, and support non-hit artists. I'm not sure if their plan had a broader strategy, but I felt the vision was at least admirable due to its mission beyond just firm profits.

As a non-hit artist, married to a non-hit artist, and who's produced a bevy of non-hit artists, I can say that roughly none of a non-hit artist's income is likely to come from Pandora / Pandora discovery. At $0.0001/stream typical, Pandora itself cannot ever add up to meaningful income for a non-hit artist. Most of the income for the non-hit artist will come from that core group of committed fans who buy everything t…

Back when I had my radio show here in Brisbane, I used Pandora specifically for discovery for music... but that's a pretty particular use-case heh.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#263

Post by girvo »

CuriousSkeptic wrote: post #247
baldfat wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone thought they were helping out the independent artists, but in reality, it made it so they could no longer compete without a huge corporation backing them. File sharing has only helped big labels by increasing the barrier to entry. Speaking about Indie Music I'm the SMALL Record Label. The money comes in through sales of Merch, Gigs and selling CD/MP3. I think there has never been a time better for Indie Mu…

I think you're spot on at 4). Just the other day I gave up on buying music for this exact reason and went with a YouTube player. This is the service I'm looking for: A free service optimized at promoting new music, or just random radio. Medium bit rate MP3 ok if 320kbps can be sold for a low monthly fee instead. Spotify is way too expensive for this, use case. An added value store for those rare gems I actually want…

https://blog.bandcamp.com/2014/01/30/bandcamp-app-now-with-m...

Bandcamp's Music Feed feature is basically the streaming radio bit you're after, and Bandcamp itself will let you purchase and download lossless copies of the music. I wish Bandcamp was even bigger than it is, because it totally deserves to be.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#264

Post by kaonashi »

williamcotton wrote: post #215
lelandbatey wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not intend this to offend, I truly would like to share some constructive criticism on this particular comment you've shared. First, I totally understand how it can feel to share opinions that frequently are not given the seriousness that you feel they deserve, where it seems people may dismiss what you're saying out of hand or disagree without engaging what you're saying at all. The frustration of "spitting into…

I'm not going to convince anyone of anything on HackerNews. I'm up against the entire California Ideology on this forum. Every time you guys go to a conference or talk with a coworker or your boss this philosophy is being reinforced. I can't do shit but sit here and throw darts. It's really the only effective course of action. Sorry if it stings a little. If you actually are interested, I've previously said everythin…

That's a whole lot of typing to say nothing.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#265

Post by brandall10 »

WalterBright wrote: post #220
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Artists can do and have done all of the above, especially on the indie scene. The "just a performer" model is only true for that small percentage of singers who are just performers. That model includes some of the bigger household names. Some of them are essentially fashion models who sing and dance, not musicians. Others are singers who also produce, and have a feel for what sounds good even if they can't play all t…

> Artists can do and have done all of the above Of course. But not that many are successful at it. Even the Beatles floundered for years before success came only after signing with a label. Note that Ringo was a session musician brought in by the label. George Martin made enormous contributions to their music.

No he wasn't. He was the drummer for another local band they were friendly with. He stood in with their drummer on several occasions nearly 2 years before joining, even recorded with them as a backing band for another singer.

Their original drummer, Pete Best, could not keep time when recording. George Martin raised the issue that he needed to be replaced, that's when they decided to reach out to Ringo.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#266

Post by bmm6o »

riprowan wrote: post #151
Dwolb wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a side note, I saw the founder of Pandora speak and he said their mission is to create a middle class for musicians by making it easier to discover, listen, and support non-hit artists. I'm not sure if their plan had a broader strategy, but I felt the vision was at least admirable due to its mission beyond just firm profits.

As a non-hit artist, married to a non-hit artist, and who's produced a bevy of non-hit artists, I can say that roughly none of a non-hit artist's income is likely to come from Pandora / Pandora discovery. At $0.0001/stream typical, Pandora itself cannot ever add up to meaningful income for a non-hit artist. Most of the income for the non-hit artist will come from that core group of committed fans who buy everything t…

> I just found a bit a data that states that Pandora accounts for ~10% of new music discovery which is a lot better than I would have guessed

To me this says more about the weakness of the alternatives than about the strength of Pandora. At least it's possible to hear new music on Pandora. It's sad what a lowest common denominator echo chamber terrestrial radio has become.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#267

Post by brandnewlow »

robenkleene wrote: post #259
johnchristopher wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another that legend has it was recording the same way, albeit under different circumstances: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siamese_Dream I read the wikipedia entry and it's quite a stretch :].

Yeah, I agree 100%, especially with respect to Wikipedia's description of it. It's just something I've always heard around, but I definitely don't have an even remotely reliable source. Here's what Allmusic says about it: "Corgan eventually played almost all the instruments himself (except for percussion)." http://www.allmusic.com/album/siamese-dream-mw0000099414

"Except percussion" is a pretty big exception on Pumpkins records!

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#268

Post by brandall10 »

WalterBright wrote: post #236
Grishnakh wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but the story as I've heard it is that the Beatles only became successful after signing with that label, and completely changing their style, adopting those stupid bowl cuts, and playing really simplistic formulaic music, all because the label convinced them to. After they achieved a lot of commercial success with this, they started going in the more artistic direction they really wanted to, because they had th…

Yet they still brought in session musicians and George Martin still made enormous contributions. Ironically for your statement, Eric Clapton was a session musician to play lead guitar for "While my guitar gently weeps." Their pre-label original tunes just weren't that good. They played mostly covers. Can you suggest a pre-label Beatles original tune that was worthy?

They only brought in session musicians for instruments they could not play (ie. orchestral pieces).

They never brought in session musicians to play their own pieces. All guitar, drum, bass, piano, etc parts were played by the members of the band and on very few occasions piano pieces by George Martin.

Eric Clapton was not a "session musician", he was doing an uncredited solo for his best friend George Harrison's song.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#269

Post by CuriousSkeptic »

girvo wrote: post #263
CuriousSkeptic wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're spot on at 4). Just the other day I gave up on buying music for this exact reason and went with a YouTube player. This is the service I'm looking for: A free service optimized at promoting new music, or just random radio. Medium bit rate MP3 ok if 320kbps can be sold for a low monthly fee instead. Spotify is way too expensive for this, use case. An added value store for those rare gems I actually want…

https://blog.bandcamp.com/2014/01/30/bandcamp-app-now-with-m... Bandcamp's Music Feed feature is basically the streaming radio bit you're after, and Bandcamp itself will let you purchase and download lossless copies of the music. I wish Bandcamp was even bigger than it is, because it totally deserves to be.

Thanks, it did pass my radar, will check it out again.

But I realized I left out the hardest requirement, which probably is the killer for most competition, i want to use the same service to listen to mainstream music (at least the old mainstream music I listen to)

Edit: OTOH it might be possible to get by with covers only. A search for Pink Floyd certainly didn't disappoint.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#270

Post by brandall10 »

Grishnakh wrote: post #230
WalterBright wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Artists can do and have done all of the above Of course. But not that many are successful at it. Even the Beatles floundered for years before success came only after signing with a label. Note that Ringo was a session musician brought in by the label. George Martin made enormous contributions to their music.

Yeah, but the story as I've heard it is that the Beatles only became successful after signing with that label, and completely changing their style, adopting those stupid bowl cuts, and playing really simplistic formulaic music, all because the label convinced them to. After they achieved a lot of commercial success with this, they started going in the more artistic direction they really wanted to, because they had th…

Mostly incorrect (die-hard Beatles fan here)

- Those bowl cuts came years before any success, specifically during the summer of 1960 in Hamburg from a friend of the band.

- The suits were insisted upon by their manager, not the label, in an effort to help get them signed.

- When they first got attention they were doing and playing exactly what they wanted to, mostly because they were singularly focused on being successful. Their set list was mostly comprised of ~500 popular cover songs from the time. You can hear much of this on several of their early albums which were heavily loaded with these - those were the same songs you could find them doing back before they made it, that they played in the Cavern Club and strip clubs in Hamburg. George Martin was the one who pushed them to be bold with the material, get creative with the arrangements, etc, and then the London scene pushed them further forward from there.

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