261–270 of 397 posts
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Wow, you're correct. I did not know that. Fun!
Twitch is fairly-conforming to IRCv3... they don't prefix their non-standard capabilities with their domain in CAP LS. :> I'm sad because I applied to Twitch directly stating what I'd want to work on with the IRC portal and never got a response. My entire work history is IRC. XD
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Are you fucking kidding me? I've been using IRC since I was 10. If a 10-year-old can figure it out, I think a professional engineer can figure it out. Using your typical IRC client to join a channel is just 4 steps: 1. Download IRC client. 2. Pick a nickname. 3. Pick a server. 4. Join a channel. With something like kiwiirc, you can even omit steps 1, 3, and 4: you can give someone a URL to a particular channel on a p…
> Professional Engineer Yeah, here's where you fucked up reading my post. > anyone in any kind of role (senior to junior, technical to non-technical) I'm talking about Joe Frontend, Billy Design Intern, Gary Office Assistant. Maybe you work on teams that are 100% neckbeards that aren't afraid to crack open an RFC to get daily shit done (and waste huge amounts of company resources on things that should be simple), but…
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The specs are not directly the problem in XMPP. They just amplify it. The real issue is XMPP does not directly solve the problems the authors of those chat apps deal with. Doing things properly requires writing XEPs and just a lot of hassle which a company building its own little Slack killer doesn't want to invest in, and doesn't have a reason to invest in either because none of the current ones support XMPP in the…
> XMPP does not directly solve the problems the authors of those chat apps deal with Could you please recap which problems exactly? I though the problems which matter nowadays is independence from vendors, and, after that, reuse of existing software. > Doing things properly requires writing XEPs and just a lot of hassle which a company building its own little Slack killer doesn't want to invest in So they don't. But…
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Yeah, nobody's ever written things that can respond to events by posting messages in an IRC channel. Shame, really.
The point is that Slack is much easier to configure. Writing IRC notification scripts tests the limits of the “10-year-old” level of difficulty.
Regardless, it's not as if there aren't upwards of a dozen of off-the-shelf IRC bots you can grab off the 'net...
I get that IRC never had a particular client that galvanized the protocol as much as the many iterations of proprietary real time chat that has came and went over the past 10 years, but honestly the problem isn't the protocol, the problem is that no one was making clients meant for the mainstream.
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The first few times these discussions were interesting. But for every submission mentioning Slack, somebody has to come and claim that IRC is all anybody ever needed, and all the arguments have been rehashed over and over. The alternatives mentioned in the article on the other hand are barely discussed at all.
I find it interesting that all those who claim IRC is insufficient or is too hard to implement (they say the same about XMPP) don't ever seem to say what is so hard, or mention the features that are missing.
To avoid repeating myself: http://lists.lca2016.linux.org.au/pipermail/chat/2016-Januar...
As soon as you say "run a bouncer" you limit your audience severely. Without a bouncer, you're a transient in the world of IRC. Doubly so if you have the temerity to want to interact from a mobile device that pops on and off networks all the time.
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I'm sure that I'm over simplifying, but can't you just put tokens or markdown right in the chat for those sort of things? If you have an old, flat IRC client, it's ugly but you can figure it out. If you have a supported client you get a nice UI?
No amount of markdown makes up for the lack of offline messages.
"Oh, Johnson isn't online? better send him an email. /message acmebot email johnson@acme-supply.co Get your ass to mars!" chat bot sees the command and sends him the email.
Sorry if I'm coming off as cynical it's just that I see a trend of the entire community trying to fix problems that aren't real problems.
A hundred different chat systems mentioned here. None of them compatible with one another. Well, I guess a couple of them have IRC gateways, but you have to actually set those up. Gee, wouldn't it be nice if you could pick and choose your UI? Pick and choose your "integrations", your "plugins", your client, etc without having to lose your entire userbase, history, contacts? Some sort of open protocol. Urgh, I've been…
Here's a timeline we put together of about 60 incompatible chat services: https://cdn.sameroom.io/chat-timeline.pdf Our service Sameroom ( https://sameroom.io ) is a commercial solution to the chat incompatibility disaster, not too different from an AC adapter thingy with a bunch of different plugs, one or two per continent. After implementing the protocols of quite a number of these systems (~20), we're seeing a sca…
Especially Jabber/XMPP was created to fix that issue by standardizing the protocol. The idea is that IM would be like email - no central server.
Others (GTalk, Facebook, WhatsApp, HipChat to name few) started implementing it but did not enable server to server communication (ok GTalk did, but as soon as they became popular they intentionally broke it with Hangouts).
So now we have bunch of services that use same protocol but still can't communicate with each other, the XMPP seems like it is dying.
A while ago there were plenty of server-side transports to help migrate to XMPP, but it doesn't seem like they are no longer being developed.
I don't understand why no one cares anymore about decentralizing and standardizing IM.
Getting a critical mass of people to use a chat system is the defining factor of success, not the technical genius or features of the system.
Slack is successful because it IS one of those standards that a critical mass of people use and is modern.
There are plenty of systems that are far superior. However they are failures because they didn't achieve the critical mass of users.
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irccloud isn't free, open source, or self hosted, so why not use slack instead?
The question should be "why not use a self hosted irc client instead". At least developers will use IRC anyway to get and stay in touch with open source projects and the countless communities that have their own irc server/channel. Why not use one protocol that's widely used?