We're hearing about troubles at Nest • Hacker News Board

Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#261

Post by iofj » Wed, Feb 17, 2016, 11:49 AM UTC

justifier wrote: post #258

iofj wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have most of the data there. I think you just need to read through it again. You will find that Socrates taught the thirty tyrants, that he was a fierce enemy of democracy (which was most definitely not a reviled body at the time, unless you mean reviled by Socrates and his pupils. It was generally agreed that the democracy was less effective than "something else", but very little agreement on which exact "someth…

again, i am indifferent to the righteousness of socrates the man he was a fierce enemy of democracy [citation needed] seriously, what are you talking about? democracy the idea? dare i say democracy's platonic ideal? if i oppose a democracy's policy does that mean i oppose democracy? (which was most definitely not a reviled body at the time, unless you mean reviled by Socrates and his pupils [citation needed] show me…

    Would you have let Socrates continue his teaching 
    after such events, after one in 20 of the people 
    you knew got executed by his students

  well, yes, but that is because i support freedom of speech

If you consider that reasonable then perhaps we simply have a huge difference of opinion here. I would put forward that a hell of a lot of people would object to teaching an ideology after that same group committed mass murder. And by object I mean mobs would hunt them down and kill them (which is pretty much what happened).

  also, if you can explain, if this even were the case, how it demonstrably leads to killing?

It obviously led to killings in that period of history of Athens. Whether this was solely the fault of the ideology, or the man is an open question that cannot ever be answered to any modern standard. In that particular piece of history, however, most people would obviously consider it true, for they just saw the ideology's adherents do it before their very eyes.

The standard you're using, innocent until proven guilty, is a standard that would only make it's first appearance in law 6 centuries after these events ... so I would say that applying such a standard here is not a reasonable judgement to make. These people worked from the principle that the majority of free men is always right. The "beyond reasonable doubt" part is more recent still, a set of legal rules that would not be used in court cases until 1800, 2200 year after this case.

Yes Socrates was convicted simply on the fact that more people shouted he was guilty than that shouted he was innocent. However this was a very high legal standard for the time that should not be looked down upon. In most places and times during history, a single ruler would simply decide on his gut feeling if the person was guilty, usually without so much as hearing the accused's version of events and extract a far crueler punishment. Socrates was given a chance to talk to the crowds and explain to them why he was not guilty. He could not convince them. That's how justice worked in Athens.

Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#262

Post by dguaraglia » Wed, Feb 17, 2016, 5:51 PM UTC

l1ambda wrote: post #116

outside1234 wrote: post #11

I worked there. It was literally the worst experience of my career - and I have worked at all of the hardest charging blue chips and two successful startups - so it is not about high expectations - but abuse. I still wake up with something like PTSD occasionally from getting yelled at and bullied by Tony Fadell almost literally every day while I was there. I have a distance from it now -- and a way better job. It mad…

TGIF?

"Thank Goodness It's Friday". Although, interestingly enough, it's on Thursdays so people in APAC can take part.

Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#263

Post by quietplatypus » Thu, Feb 18, 2016, 1:40 AM UTC

brianwawok wrote: post #250

discodave wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, a thermostat already solves that problem because it measures the temperature of the house and adjusts the heat accordingly.

Example for the predict temperature component. For example with honeywell: My house warms up to 70 degrees by 8 am, holds it there for 2 hours, by 10am it shuts off as the sun takes over warming. By noon it is 76 in my house and I am having to open windows to stay cool. With nest: My house warms up to 70 by 8, but is allowed to drift down to 67 by 10am because it knows the sun is coming. Sure enough it does, and warm…

Ah, got it. So it's able to take into account outside factors that more efficiently get you to the target temperature. Okay, I see the value now. Thanks for the explanation!

Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#264

Post by eru » Thu, Feb 18, 2016, 5:58 AM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #136

njs12345 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would second that. Not in SV, in London, but I had a similar experience with an abusive work environment. Stayed way too long and some of my shares vested. Now they're worth some money on paper, but it wasn't worth it - my advice for anyone in a similar situation would be to get out as early as possible.

Although leaving early creates an incentive for the company to abuse their workers before their shares vest.

Don't put value on shares vesting late when comparing offers, then.

Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#265

Post by dto2 » Thu, Feb 18, 2016, 7:50 AM UTC

outside1234 wrote: post #11

I worked there. It was literally the worst experience of my career - and I have worked at all of the hardest charging blue chips and two successful startups - so it is not about high expectations - but abuse. I still wake up with something like PTSD occasionally from getting yelled at and bullied by Tony Fadell almost literally every day while I was there. I have a distance from it now -- and a way better job. It mad…

Same, worst 1 year of my life working. And the problem isn't just Tony but a lot of his direct reports are really really bad. The real irony is hearing Tony say the company has a no asshole policy and that he wants Nest to not have assholes like Apple did. Fail. Fuck Nest and Larry.

Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#266

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Feb 18, 2016, 7:37 PM UTC

bobby_9x wrote: post #182

st3v3r wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not usually. People who do that think they're saying something that someone needs to hear, but they're usually either wrong, or saying it in a manner that does make them an asshole.

I disagree. Most people don’t want to hear the truth and will take anything they don’t want to hear as a personal attack against them. I’ve seen it time and time again.. and then pushed out on social media to make the person that said it look like the bad guy...and since it’s usually one person against another, it’s impossible to defend. This is why when the technology gets cheap enough, I will have a secret body cam…

[deleted]

Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#267

Post by sdickert » Sat, Feb 20, 2016, 2:19 PM UTC

njs12345 wrote: post #35

outside1234 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The really great thing about being in software in Silicon Valley is that you can more or less write your own meal ticket somewhere else. My advice to anyone else in this situation is to do just that. The first time abuse happens, just walk out, have a laugh about it (it reflects on them not you), and find another gig. There are a lot of great jobs out there. I have a lot of empathy now for all the crummy jobs where p…

I would second that. Not in SV, in London, but I had a similar experience with an abusive work environment. Stayed way too long and some of my shares vested. Now they're worth some money on paper, but it wasn't worth it - my advice for anyone in a similar situation would be to get out as early as possible.

Seriously? In London? Now that is intriguing.