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Request For Research: Basic Income

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#261

Post by orky56 »

With regards to college tuition, the relatively easy access to capital via student loans has increased the cost of tuition over time. The demand for post-secondary is relatively inelastic since it is a strong factor in higher incomes down the road. If we apply this same logic to basic income, how can we ensure that basic income won't just further drive the increase in cost for all basic necessities that a basic income would contribute to (e.g. housing, food, utilities)?

For better or worse, the only way to "control" the costs would be if each of these basic necessities were led by government institutions or regulations as well as healthy competition for the production. That is a large step politically and socially but may be inevitable if we want to see a basic income succeed.

If anyone has any research or studies on related phenomena I would be very interested.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#262

Post by fsloth »

liamcardenas wrote: post #95

I recommend this book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_Unexceptionalism_... From wikipedia: "Allister Heath, deputy editor of the The Daily Telegraph, wrote that the book shows how the “remarkable work ethic” of Scandinavians has been eroded by large welfare states over time." (Of course, don't take wikipedia's word for it-- read the book yourself) My take-away: Heavy socialism has absolutely stifled econo…

You do realize that book is ideologically motivated? There is a wave of neo-thatcherite-reagan-pinochet wannabes who want to replicate the agressive liberal policies of US and UK from 70-80:s in Scandinavia.

I'm not saying they are necessarily wrong, but that their goal is not to be 'right' in the scientific sense but to rather to drive policies which steepen the income inequality (which - as it is- is still quite low).

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#263

Post by PabloOsinaga »

sama wrote: post #213
surfmike wrote: post #97

"What can startups do to increase prosperity for everyone?" I think cheap quality housing is a huge area that would help everyone. Taxes and housing together eat up the vast majority of the earnings most people make. What could make a difference? - applying technology to building denser housing. for example, imagine cheap robotic excavation, so every house and building could bury all their parking lots and long term…

Yes--driving down the cost of housing is one of the things I think about the most. It seems so critical to the whole equation.

I wonder if we are thinking about the housing cost problem properly. I live in NYC and there are a lot of affordable options. That's certainly not the case about the most desirable locations. But ipso facto those locations will continue going up in price. Perhaps the problem is not so much about housing cost but transportation and access to services (eg uber, doordash), which seem to be advancing and making a lot of progress. Would love to hear your thoughts about this.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#264

Post by Bud »

dmix wrote: post #244
Bud wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does a 0% public sector job growth necessarily indicate a failure, in and of itself? To me, that's not probative at all. What if Sweden had simply reached a level where everyone who was employable and wanted to have a job, had one? "Removing red tape" has been tried quite a bit, as a sole means of stimulating growth. Not only has it failed over and over again, but the negative consequences dwarf even the fantasies of…

Removing red tape has indeed been tried in America... but almost exclusively for the benefit of already large near monopolistic corporations. It has rarely happened to the benefit of small/medium businesses. Especially if you're talking about deregulation that happened in the financial industry in the 2000s. The companies that most struggle with red tape aren't mega-corps but the smaller companies who can't afford te…

You make a good point, and I hear you. I'd be interested in any specifics you have to offer that would target smaller businesses.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#265

Post by pcmaffey »

theseatoms wrote: post #240
avip wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a more trivial alternative to "equally credible alternatives to university" - just ban education based discrimination. Same way US so nicely enforces regarding race or martial status. Make it illegal to ask. Simple change with 100% guaranteed positive outcome.

Let's also ban previous-employer based discrimination. ;)

And skill-based discrimination.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#266

Post by mrtron »

It isn't clear what we should optimize on.

    Do people sit around and play video games, or do they create new things?
The "idleness" seen in playing video games seems very close to most jobs. Many factory jobs have more mental idleness and less fulfillment than a video game.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#267

Post by OldSchoolJohnny »

nickff wrote: post #200
criddell wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's not going to be an answer, of course. I think a good source of data could be the population of retired people. I'm pretty sure if I could afford to be retired, I could easily keep busy the rest of my life.

People who retire earlier die sooner; for each year earlier that one retires, life expectancy is shortened by two months (and the results are robust against different assumptions).[1] This would lead one to believe that working is good for your health. [1] http://freakonomics.com/2012/05/17/retirement-kills-a-new-ma...

Obligatory: causation, correlation mention - surely people who are sicker retire sooner?

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#268

Post by davidw »

Riseed wrote: post #216
davidw wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The suggestion in the book is a negative income tax: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax

One big difference between basic income and negative income tax is who receives them. Basic income is given to everyone, and negative income tax is only given to those below a threshold amount -- creating two classes of people: givers and receivers, us and them. The negative income tax experiment in New Jersey showed that the negative income tax created a disincentive to work, and increased family breakups. [0] Negat…

Interesting! Looks like there's certainly a lot of room for experimentation.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#269

Post by tptacek »

avip wrote: post #203
tptacek wrote: post #170

Things that would help everyone, regardless of income, without depending on a radical restructuring of entitlement spending, that seem like things startups could actually do: * Equally credible alternatives to university education for professions that don't involve students shouldering $100k-$200k in debt based on decisions they have to make when they're 18 years old. * Empirical, blinded, skills-assessment based tur…

There's a more trivial alternative to "equally credible alternatives to university" - just ban education based discrimination. Same way US so nicely enforces regarding race or martial status. Make it illegal to ask. Simple change with 100% guaranteed positive outcome.

Whether I agree or not with this (mostly, I don't), it fails my test of "being something a startup can do".

Whereas a startup that had a really good solution for inculcating the kinds of skills and values white-collar employers are looking for could outcompete universities instead of legislating them out of the picture.

When people discuss the value signaling provided by elite universities, their first example is usually "the diligence and hard work it takes to get into the university". That strikes me as the kind of value you can find ways to signal just effectively without asking for $150k.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#270

Post by lxmorj »

rewqfdsa wrote: post #235
tptacek wrote: post #170

Things that would help everyone, regardless of income, without depending on a radical restructuring of entitlement spending, that seem like things startups could actually do: * Equally credible alternatives to university education for professions that don't involve students shouldering $100k-$200k in debt based on decisions they have to make when they're 18 years old. * Empirical, blinded, skills-assessment based tur…

> Equally credible alternatives to university education for professions You're talking about trade schools? Good. That's a step in the right direction. It doesn't go far enough though. One unfortunate reality of our existence is that people differ markedly in cognitive skill. These differences are innate and immutable. Not everyone can benefit from an education. If we pitch education as the way to address to inequali…

I think you're underestimate the number of jobs that can be done with extremely little cognitive skill, and over-estimating the speed with which technology will make them go away.

I agree on the education front, but disagree that there are significantly many negative-margin-value people. Personally I think a huge amount of that perception comes from the fact that people just don't fucking move to better economic opportunities. That problem may be solvable as things like distributed call centers and other location-independent work becomes more common.

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