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1.5 Million Missing Black Men

nytimes.com

251–260 of 375 posts

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#251
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i would agree with you if most prisoners were not there on drug charges, or if black Americans didn't spend as much time in prison as violent criminals. http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/prisons_and_drugs#sthash.OPr... It is blatantly , flagrantly institutionally racist. > (Number Of People Serving Time For Drug Offenses In US Prisons) > Federal: "Between 2001 and 2013, more than half of prisoners serving sentences of…

The vast majority of people in prison for drug offenses are in there for dealing, not using. So the point about blacks and whites using at the same rate is a red herring.

Whites seem to deal at a higher rate: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/30/w...

And that's not a red herring at all. Correlating use with dealing is pretty logical.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Presumably large, racially discriminatory social programs and cultural programming such as have been tried for the last 40 years are called for to remedy the problem. There are plenty of obvious things that need fixing, even if you don't believe at all in affirmative action-like programs: 1. Clear conflicts of interest in the criminal justice system, like regular prosecutors being responsible for bringing charges a…

> The unjustifiable war on drugs, which disproportionately affects black communities. See, this gets to the heart of the matter. I personally think the war on drugs is very stupid, but the data indicates that it does not disproportionately affect blacks. Blacks use drugs at much higher rates than whites and blacks distribute drugs at even higher rates than whites. The prosecutions for narcotics crimes are by all indi…

Blacks use drugs at much higher rates than whites and blacks distribute drugs at even higher rates than whites.

Most studies suggest the exact opposite to be true.

http://healthland.time.com/2011/11/07/study-whites-more-like...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/30/w...

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#253
post #13

> The black women left behind find that potential partners of the same race are scarce, while men, who face an abundant supply of potential mates, don’t need to compete as hard to find one. As a result, Mr. Charles said, “men seem less likely to commit to romantic relationships, or to work hard to maintain them.” Interesting, I never thought about this side-effect of mass incarceration. Another aggravating factor in…

I don't know if romantic relationships would prevent civilians becoming terrorists, but in at least one case, they were deliberately used to turn terrorists back into civilians:

http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/2001/12/hoffman....

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#254
post #81

The black women left behind find that potential partners of the same race are scarce,...The imbalance has also forced women to rely on themselves — often alone... There is a pretty obvious solution to this problem which has been legal since 1967. It works well and the babies come out really cute. Weird how the NYT glosses that over...

OKCupid has explored the topic of interracial dating repeatedly using their dataset. The most(?) recent results are here: http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/race-attraction-2009-2014/ Relevant summary: Black women are subjected to substantial penalties in the dating market by men of other ethnicities. In fact, black women are the recipients of the highest inter-racial penalties of any racial pair measured by OkCupid.…

The OKCupid research doesn't account for socioeconomic backgrounds, which is ridiculous. Marriages are essentially financial transactions with significant economic considerations. Most people date within their socioeconomic background. This is much likely a greater bias than racial bias. Blacks are underrepresented in higher economic classes which are dominated by whites - not hard to see why dating between both races would be affected as a result.

It's also likely the case that the OkCupid research samples heavily from the US population. Interracial dating in the US is encumbered by massive historical baggage from the slavery era. For instance, black women in the US are the only group of women that I'm aware of that are more inclined to "marry down" than to "marry out".

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#255
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because it isn't obviously racist. you can't just say "more african americans and hispanics are arrested than whites or asians, therefore, police are targeting african americans and hispanics unfairly." that's not how it works. wrt. drug-related crimes, sure, there seems to be a weird disparity (does it take into account 'casual' drug users vs. 'hardcore' drug users?). wrt. violent crime, however, the percent of arre…

i would agree with you if most prisoners were not there on drug charges, or if black Americans didn't spend as much time in prison as violent criminals. http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/prisons_and_drugs#sthash.OPr... It is blatantly , flagrantly institutionally racist. > (Number Of People Serving Time For Drug Offenses In US Prisons) > Federal: "Between 2001 and 2013, more than half of prisoners serving sentences of…

DanBC - You are drawing conclusions from insufficient data. You assume that black prisoners serving time for drug convictions are disproportionately punished.

In reality, as widely documented, drug busts are often the only way to get a violent person off the streets. It's not "justice" per se, since they're sometimes punished for the lesser crime, but police typically know who the bad guys are in their neighborhood, who the likely murderer or rapist is, who's breaking and entering, but it's not all that easy to apprehend someone and get a conviction. And if they don't get a conviction, there's the risk of double jeopardy -- can't be prosecuted for the same thing twice. So sometimes it's more expedient to get them off the streets on a lesser charge such as possession.

If you explore the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (bjs.gov) you will discover some startling and depressing facts. About half of the roughly 16,000 gun homicides per year are committed by black males 16-39, and most of their victims are also black. What takes so many black males out of society can be explained by this type of statistic -- gang bangers fighting it out in the ghettos. (Hispanics are also disproportionately represented, but not as highly as blacks.) By contrast, the majority of white deaths from guns are suicides.

Indeed if it weren't for this tragically high violence among Blacks, guns would hardly be considered a political hot potato issue in the U.S. because per capita violence would be about on par with Canada and Western Europe.

Then of course there are many other crimes of violence and property -- robberies, muggings, rapes, B&E, shoplifting, etc., that snare black youth in the legal system for years.

The U.S. has a socio-economic problem with the African-American population that has not alleviated, 50 years after the Civil Rights Act that emancipated Black people, gave them the power of the vote, moved the country toward greater protection of minority rights, and opened the legislative door to quotas and affirmative action to try to uplift the black population economically.

Obviously, there is still racism in modern day U.S. society, but it is almost more notable by its infrequence, e.g. the headlines that happen every time a white cop shoots a black suspect, a tiny fraction of overall shootings yet given disproportionate attention by society because of residual outrage at the casual profiling and brutality from an earlier era.

What can be done? In my opinion, economic development would help to alleviate these problems more than almost any other solution that's been tried. I would focus on ghetto areas, both black and Hispanic, and designate them as "special economic zones" that would have greatly reduced taxation and regulation, similar to what's been successfully done in China and other developing areas. For example, an entrepreneur would be able to establish a factory in an SEZ with minimal EPA scrutiny and minimal paperwork, something that normally would take months or years, with all sorts of NIMBY lawsuits and red tape.

Get people working real jobs, get them on a path to middle class prosperity, and their children will see a way out of the hopelessness and despair that characterize the ghettos.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The unjustifiable war on drugs, which disproportionately affects black communities. See, this gets to the heart of the matter. I personally think the war on drugs is very stupid, but the data indicates that it does not disproportionately affect blacks. Blacks use drugs at much higher rates than whites and blacks distribute drugs at even higher rates than whites. The prosecutions for narcotics crimes are by all indi…

Blacks use drugs at much higher rates than whites and blacks distribute drugs at even higher rates than whites. Most studies suggest the exact opposite to be true. http://healthland.time.com/2011/11/07/study-whites-more-like... http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/30/w...

The studies where they simply poll or ask indicate equivalent or lower black narcotics usage. Every piece of research that uses drug testing reveals well over double the rate of white drugs usage.

This is a lie that needs to die. Blacks get arrested for drugs because they have and use drugs, relative to white people.

It was the same with a huge mess of headlines about blacks getting pulled over on north east highways disproportionately. Finally some work was done with hidef cameras that could show the race of drivers that showed blacks speed at well over double the rate of whites. Black drivers get pulled over disproportionately for dangerous driving because, wait for it, they drive dangerously disproportionately.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#257
post #241
post #20

I'm a Black Man. Growing up there was a realization that being alive and out of trouble over the age of 21 was an accomplishment. This would extend to middle class. Due to a history of American apartheid, there were often just a few degrees of separation between middle class and working/poor class kin.

I hope you don't mind me asking you this. I've had this idea, that I think may make the situation better. They idea is that in black-on-black, as well as victimless crimes, the defendant is allowed to be judged by a jury of black people. Then the black community can decide for itself what punishments are best for the community, and could give more lenient punishments if the current ones are seen as harsh enough to be…

Are you American? If so, why do you think the parent is more qualified than you to answer such a question? What if only all-white juries were allowed to prescribe punishment for white defendants? I think there are much better solutions to the problem than the one you suggest (the recent crack/powder cocaine sentencing reform is one). You'll have to ask why congress has refused to enact laws that would reduce disparity in sentencing.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> increasingly belligerent I'd argue that China's belligerence is lower now than it has been. They've moved from a very communist that strongly distrusted and arguably even hated the West, to a semi-capitalist one who mostly just wants to compete with the West (and makes oodles of $$$ selling to us). The US has been drum-beating against China a lot recently, but frankly that seems more about the US losing in the "tra…

The Chinese engage in cyber-espionage operations against their "peaceful" trading partners, rattle sabers over Taiwan and various islands, and so forth. http://articles.latimes.com/2014/jan/10/opinion/la-oe-schmit... They used to talk about a "Peaceful Rise" and had for a very long time. They stopped.

What do they say about glass houses and the NSA?

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#259
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i would agree with you if most prisoners were not there on drug charges, or if black Americans didn't spend as much time in prison as violent criminals. http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/prisons_and_drugs#sthash.OPr... It is blatantly , flagrantly institutionally racist. > (Number Of People Serving Time For Drug Offenses In US Prisons) > Federal: "Between 2001 and 2013, more than half of prisoners serving sentences of…

The vast majority of people in prison for drug offenses are in there for dealing, not using. So the point about blacks and whites using at the same rate is a red herring.

To add to thatswrong0's comment. The line between possession and dealing is arbitrary, and not exactly cut and dried[1]. See also sentencing disparity in crack vs powder cocaine.

1. http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal...

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#260
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US we had segregation, not apartheid. There is a difference. As a white man living in the South, we still have segregation in practice. I rarely had interaction with blacks because they did different things and took different classes at school. We all went to the same schools---just didn't have the same classes or have the same social circles. Not much shared in the way of culture. I have had some black friend…

> There is nothing white people can do to fix this. Blacks have always decided what kind of culture they want to have and they will continue to do so. This is so clearly untrue that I wonder if it's worth pointing out the obvious. In fact, black-skinned Americans rarely have had the option of self-determination, and mostly that is due to white-skinned contemporaries who enslaved them, forced them into ghettos, segreg…

> "I have had some black friends over the years who get berated by other blacks for "acting white.""

What can white people do to fix this specifically?

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